4 ms·

What's wonderful about Tokyo? 5x price increase, small apartments (instead of houses), higher babysitter costs -- these are all downsides. What is better in T

What's wonderful about Tokyo? 5x price increase, small apartments (instead of houses), higher babysitter costs -- these are all downsides. What is better in Tokyo than in, say, Austin, TX?

kasey_junk 12y ago
Access to family?
- dennisgorelik 12y ago
  Patrick's family is in the US. But fine, let's consider just Ruriko's family: they are mostly in Ogaki, not in Tokyo. I understand that Tokyo has some advantages (any city in the world would have some advantages), but overall it seems to be a sub-optimal choice.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Kliment 12y ago
    It's not your choice to make, nor mine. Virtually every part of my family (with one exception) lives in a place I dislike and would not live in. Let people live where they're happiest, rather than trying to impose your criteria upon them.
    - dennisgorelik 12y ago
      I you think I want Patrick to do what I want him to do -- that is NOT the case. My goal here is to disassemble Patrick's choice, learn from it whatever I can, try to make a prediction about the effect of that move on his life, see what Patrick thinks about the move to Tokyo 1-3 years later and learn again. So far I think the move would have slightly negative impact, mostly because increased cost of living. That would force Patrick to deviate from his goals more, do more enterprise consulting (as opposing to product development) and add more stress to his life.
veidr 12y ago
Tokyo is expensive, but its the best city to raise kids in that I have ever seen. Its high density and superb transportation mean you don't need a car -- go almost everywhere with your kids by walking, bicycle, or extremely frequent convenient train. Riding in the car sucks for kids (and adults, IMO). There is access to all kinds of world-class health care, and all of it is free for your kids. Tons of great educational institutions from the best universities down to preschool (and although the preschools can take some time to get into due to capacity, they are by and large terrific). Great food of virtually every variety except Mexican. Most of Tokyo is extremely clean, safe and crime-free. Multiple always-open industry-redefining convenience stores, same-day Amazon prime deliveries, synchronous 1Gbps fiber optic Internet connections for $50 a month, a regular taxi system that is better than the Uber you always hear Americans raving about, one-hour cold beer delivery... in other words, the kind of fundamental lifestyle convenience level that is good when you are single, but becomes way more important once you have kids. Source: I live in Tokyo with my wife, 2-year-old, and 2-month-old.
- dennisgorelik 12y ago
  How do all these wonderful family benefits explain that Tokyo has the lowest fertility rate in Japan [1]? --- [1] http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japans-fertility-rate-rises-to-1-43-in-2013 http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japans-fert... Tokyo has the lowest fertility rate in Japan by far, hovering just above 1.0.
  - veidr 12y ago
    Well, if I had to hazard a guess, I would say the main factor is the high cost of living, especially rent/mortgage expense. I have several friends who moved out of Tokyo to have kids for financial reasons (but usually not without some regret). Tokyo is pretty awesome, but you do have to be able to afford it. I would assume it's a lot more expensive to live here than Austin, TX, but I know it is cheaper (and IMO way better for raising kids) than say, San Francisco.
    - dennisgorelik 12y ago
7pik 12y ago
Safety/crime, international connectivity, climate/sunshine, quality of architecture, public transportation, tolerance, environmental issues and access to nature, urban design, business conditions, pro-active policy developments and medical care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_liveable_cities#Monocle.27s_Quality_of_Life_Survey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_liveable_cities#M... Tokyo is #2.
paulsutter 12y ago
In Tokyo, Children ride the subway alone to school with no worries at all. Bicycles are left unlocked. Central Tokyo has more Michelin restaurants than Paris, London, and New York put together. Let me know when you visit Tokyo. I'd be happy to show you around. Any HN user is welcome to ask me for Tokyo advice.
hudibras 12y ago
Just a guess, but the "5x" increase is probably also due to low prices in Ogaki.
Dewie 12y ago
Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder with regards to Tokyo? Have you had a bad experience living there yourself?
- dennisgorelik 12y ago
  Tokyo's cost of living and population density makes it anti-self-funded-startup and anti-family. I'm not against Tokyo in particular. Patrick moving to NYC, Washington DC, Singapore, London etc. would also surprise me. I never lived in Tokyo and it was interesting to learn from veidr that Tokyo could be safe and comfortable for a family [that has significant income].

What's wonderful about Tokyo? 5x price increase, small apartments (instead of houses), higher babysitter costs -- these are all downsides. What is better in Tokyo than in, say, Austin, TX?

kasey_junk 12y ago

Access to family?

dennisgorelik 12y ago
Patrick's family is in the US. But fine, let's consider just Ruriko's family: they are mostly in Ogaki, not in Tokyo. I understand that Tokyo has some advantages (any city in the world would have some advantages), but overall it seems to be a sub-optimal choice.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Kliment 12y ago
  It's not your choice to make, nor mine. Virtually every part of my family (with one exception) lives in a place I dislike and would not live in. Let people live where they're happiest, rather than trying to impose your criteria upon them.
  - dennisgorelik 12y ago
    I you think I want Patrick to do what I want him to do -- that is NOT the case. My goal here is to disassemble Patrick's choice, learn from it whatever I can, try to make a prediction about the effect of that move on his life, see what Patrick thinks about the move to Tokyo 1-3 years later and learn again. So far I think the move would have slightly negative impact, mostly because increased cost of living. That would force Patrick to deviate from his goals more, do more enterprise consulting (as opposing to product development) and add more stress to his life.

veidr 12y ago

Tokyo is expensive, but its the best city to raise kids in that I have ever seen. Its high density and superb transportation mean you don't need a car -- go almost everywhere with your kids by walking, bicycle, or extremely frequent convenient train. Riding in the car sucks for kids (and adults, IMO). There is access to all kinds of world-class health care, and all of it is free for your kids. Tons of great educational institutions from the best universities down to preschool (and although the preschools can take some time to get into due to capacity, they are by and large terrific). Great food of virtually every variety except Mexican. Most of Tokyo is extremely clean, safe and crime-free. Multiple always-open industry-redefining convenience stores, same-day Amazon prime deliveries, synchronous 1Gbps fiber optic Internet connections for $50 a month, a regular taxi system that is better than the Uber you always hear Americans raving about, one-hour cold beer delivery... in other words, the kind of fundamental lifestyle convenience level that is good when you are single, but becomes way more important once you have kids. Source: I live in Tokyo with my wife, 2-year-old, and 2-month-old.

dennisgorelik 12y ago
How do all these wonderful family benefits explain that Tokyo has the lowest fertility rate in Japan [1]? --- [1] http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japans-fertility-rate-rises-to-1-43-in-2013 http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/japans-fert... Tokyo has the lowest fertility rate in Japan by far, hovering just above 1.0.
- veidr 12y ago
  Well, if I had to hazard a guess, I would say the main factor is the high cost of living, especially rent/mortgage expense. I have several friends who moved out of Tokyo to have kids for financial reasons (but usually not without some regret). Tokyo is pretty awesome, but you do have to be able to afford it. I would assume it's a lot more expensive to live here than Austin, TX, but I know it is cheaper (and IMO way better for raising kids) than say, San Francisco.
  - dennisgorelik 12y ago

7pik 12y ago

Safety/crime, international connectivity, climate/sunshine, quality of architecture, public transportation, tolerance, environmental issues and access to nature, urban design, business conditions, pro-active policy developments and medical care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_liveable_cities#Monocle.27s_Quality_of_Life_Survey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_liveable_cities#M... Tokyo is #2.

paulsutter 12y ago

In Tokyo, Children ride the subway alone to school with no worries at all. Bicycles are left unlocked. Central Tokyo has more Michelin restaurants than Paris, London, and New York put together. Let me know when you visit Tokyo. I'd be happy to show you around. Any HN user is welcome to ask me for Tokyo advice.

hudibras 12y ago

Just a guess, but the "5x" increase is probably also due to low prices in Ogaki.

Dewie 12y ago

Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder with regards to Tokyo? Have you had a bad experience living there yourself?

dennisgorelik 12y ago
Tokyo's cost of living and population density makes it anti-self-funded-startup and anti-family. I'm not against Tokyo in particular. Patrick moving to NYC, Washington DC, Singapore, London etc. would also surprise me. I never lived in Tokyo and it was interesting to learn from veidr that Tokyo could be safe and comfortable for a family [that has significant income].