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This may be a unpopular opinion, but this guy needs to cofound a company with someone else. He is one of the smartest dudes I know for optimization, but seems t

This may be a unpopular opinion, but this guy needs to cofound a company with someone else. He is one of the smartest dudes I know for optimization, but seems to have some of the most tame/boring ideas for 'startups' (if you can call them that). Bingo card creator? Appointment reminder? He needs a cofounder who compliments his skills. Mainly, good ideas and good sales skills. The bottom line is you can only optimize so much via a/b testing and whatnot from marginal ideas at best.

mooneater 12y ago
I feel his $ numbers are shockingly low given his obvious calibre.
- liquidise 12y ago
  I would expect that "publicly available plans" excludes enterprise offerings, where i would anticipate a considerable income given his past posts.
  - mooneater 12y ago
    That makes sense
  - unreal37 12y ago
    He said in that post that his enterprise revenue was "$50K < X < $100K".
- soundlab 12y ago
  Aside from a salesperson, I wonder if Patio11 has considered a dedicated content marketing person to build on that SEO and maintain some level of growth for both businesses? I get it that the goal is to not get buried with work and to achieve some level of passive income, but if you lose the SEO and sales are declining, what are you left with?
  - malyk 12y ago
    He's the guy that loudly banged the drum for content marketing with BCC. The basic gist is that he hired a teacher (iirc) to write a few pages of "Bingo Cards for <x>" every month to have a unique page for a lot of different things. Try typing "US Presidents Bingo" or something and you'll probably get BCC as the first result. Patrick outsourced that page to someone working part time. There area /a lot/ of those pages on BCC. Also, he made $4,000 an hour on BCC, so it seems like he's left with a lot! And even so, business come and go all the time. Doing nothing on BCC as it fades from $60k a year to $0 over the course of a decade while doing minimal work on it for the last half of that decade doesn't sound like a bad idea to me at all. Sounds like 'free' money.
- pnathan 12y ago
  He out and out said that money qua money wasn't his reason for optimizing at this point. (He could do more, but he doesn't have to, which is a great place to be).
aw3c2 12y ago
Obligatory: http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2010/09/08/the-fisherman-and-the-businessman/ http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2010/09/08/the-fisherman-and-the-... Happiness is different things for different people. Don't be condescending if you do not understand another person's way of life.
- sadpanda5 12y ago
  I never said he shouldnt be happy. I said if he intends to make lots of money, he needs to come up with better ideas and have better skills at being a salesman. This is the classic programmer dilemma. They built a great product and dont understand why its not winning in the market. Its VHS vs Beta Max. Sales is so important for this (as is having a good idea) - He seems to fail on both counts.
  - kasey_junk 12y ago
    He specifically mentions that he isn't interested in making lots of money. Further, patio11 is one of the few programmers to have written extensively on how to become a good salesman. To say that he doesn't understand why it's not winning in the market is extremely condescending to someone who specifically writes a public post to address this.
  - jacalata 12y ago
    You didn't say anything of the sort. There was literally not a single conditional in your post.
w1ntermute 12y ago
A great post summarizing this point is The Genius and Tragedy of Patrick McKenzie, by Sebastian Marshall (username lionhearted on HN): http://sebastianmarshall.com/the-genius-and-tragedy-of-patrick-mckenzie http://sebastianmarshall.com/the-genius-and-tragedy-of-patri...
- crazypyro 12y ago
  I wouldn't describe it as a "great" post and furthermore, its pretty much outdated. He's making a lot more than $60,000 currently. Also he is running his own business/monetary life and that is something very few great entrepreneurs can still say these days. Hard to put a price on that, especially since he acknowledges he values the freedom of not being tied to investors in this very post.
  - sadpanda5 12y ago
    I know a fresh out of college Rails developer who makes more than Patrick. He is not making that much money for his skill set. Maybe hes a masochist, who knows. He obviously lacks the ability to see he is working on ridiculous ideas. The fact he cant get them funding alone is a huge deal, because I imagine anyone would fund the guy just because of who he is. But when it comes down to it, he must truly have no knowledge of scale.
    - deleted 12y ago
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    - JamesBarney 12y ago
      I think it's pretty obvious that if Patrick wanted to optimize for more money he definitely could have by focusing on consulting instead of AR. Also he owns Appointment Reminder and he didn't count the appreciation of that asset. Lets assume the total profit for AR went from 100k to 135k. Now lets make the assumption that it is valued at a 5x multiple, this means that he increased his net worth by 175k. Thus his total "profits" for the year would be under estimated by 175k.
ropman76 12y ago
I will take his tame/boring "starups" any day over a large percentage of the startups I see on TechCrunch and Pando (which I am starting to see many that have tame/boring ideas at scale anyway). His business is profitable, he doesn't need to worry about the problems that come along with accepting VC money, and can sleep in during rush hour (sold me right there LOL). Many startups are high risk with a high reward long shot with just as high failure rate. So I will take lame but profitable ideas to the bank anytime.
deleted 12y ago
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tptacek 12y ago
It's not an unpopular opinion; it's just concern trolling.
surfy 12y ago
I like his ideas. He needs someone to do the marketing and increase those numbers.
surfy 12y ago
I like his ideas. He needs someone to do the marketing and increase those numbers.
staunch 12y ago
patio11 should have teamed up with cperciva to work on Tarsnap years ago. They still should. They'd make a billion for sure.
- wglb 12y ago
  Take a look at this: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ 'cperciva likes how the business is.
krapp 12y ago
On the other hand, "boring" ideas stick around longer. Who's going to react negatively to a bingo card creator? Who doesn't need to be reminded of appointments? These are not sexy, world-changing, paradigm shifting ideas but they can be stable money makers.
robryan 12y ago
Is appointment reminder really a small market/ boring idea? I think there is massive potential there. Granted I think it needs a sales team to really get at a lot of the market.
Dewie 12y ago
I guess you have to excuse him for not pursuing the particular status jockeying of nerds, namely working on the absolute most hard, cutting edge and exciting problems/domains.

mooneater 12y ago

I feel his $ numbers are shockingly low given his obvious calibre.

liquidise 12y ago
I would expect that "publicly available plans" excludes enterprise offerings, where i would anticipate a considerable income given his past posts.
- mooneater 12y ago
  That makes sense
- unreal37 12y ago
  He said in that post that his enterprise revenue was "$50K < X < $100K".
soundlab 12y ago
Aside from a salesperson, I wonder if Patio11 has considered a dedicated content marketing person to build on that SEO and maintain some level of growth for both businesses? I get it that the goal is to not get buried with work and to achieve some level of passive income, but if you lose the SEO and sales are declining, what are you left with?
- malyk 12y ago
  He's the guy that loudly banged the drum for content marketing with BCC. The basic gist is that he hired a teacher (iirc) to write a few pages of "Bingo Cards for <x>" every month to have a unique page for a lot of different things. Try typing "US Presidents Bingo" or something and you'll probably get BCC as the first result. Patrick outsourced that page to someone working part time. There area /a lot/ of those pages on BCC. Also, he made $4,000 an hour on BCC, so it seems like he's left with a lot! And even so, business come and go all the time. Doing nothing on BCC as it fades from $60k a year to $0 over the course of a decade while doing minimal work on it for the last half of that decade doesn't sound like a bad idea to me at all. Sounds like 'free' money.
pnathan 12y ago
He out and out said that money qua money wasn't his reason for optimizing at this point. (He could do more, but he doesn't have to, which is a great place to be).

aw3c2 12y ago

Obligatory: http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2010/09/08/the-fisherman-and-the-businessman/ http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2010/09/08/the-fisherman-and-the-... Happiness is different things for different people. Don't be condescending if you do not understand another person's way of life.

sadpanda5 12y ago
I never said he shouldnt be happy. I said if he intends to make lots of money, he needs to come up with better ideas and have better skills at being a salesman. This is the classic programmer dilemma. They built a great product and dont understand why its not winning in the market. Its VHS vs Beta Max. Sales is so important for this (as is having a good idea) - He seems to fail on both counts.
- kasey_junk 12y ago
  He specifically mentions that he isn't interested in making lots of money. Further, patio11 is one of the few programmers to have written extensively on how to become a good salesman. To say that he doesn't understand why it's not winning in the market is extremely condescending to someone who specifically writes a public post to address this.
- jacalata 12y ago
  You didn't say anything of the sort. There was literally not a single conditional in your post.

w1ntermute 12y ago

A great post summarizing this point is The Genius and Tragedy of Patrick McKenzie, by Sebastian Marshall (username lionhearted on HN): http://sebastianmarshall.com/the-genius-and-tragedy-of-patrick-mckenzie http://sebastianmarshall.com/the-genius-and-tragedy-of-patri...

crazypyro 12y ago
I wouldn't describe it as a "great" post and furthermore, its pretty much outdated. He's making a lot more than $60,000 currently. Also he is running his own business/monetary life and that is something very few great entrepreneurs can still say these days. Hard to put a price on that, especially since he acknowledges he values the freedom of not being tied to investors in this very post.
- sadpanda5 12y ago
  I know a fresh out of college Rails developer who makes more than Patrick. He is not making that much money for his skill set. Maybe hes a masochist, who knows. He obviously lacks the ability to see he is working on ridiculous ideas. The fact he cant get them funding alone is a huge deal, because I imagine anyone would fund the guy just because of who he is. But when it comes down to it, he must truly have no knowledge of scale.
  - deleted 12y ago
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    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - JamesBarney 12y ago
    I think it's pretty obvious that if Patrick wanted to optimize for more money he definitely could have by focusing on consulting instead of AR. Also he owns Appointment Reminder and he didn't count the appreciation of that asset. Lets assume the total profit for AR went from 100k to 135k. Now lets make the assumption that it is valued at a 5x multiple, this means that he increased his net worth by 175k. Thus his total "profits" for the year would be under estimated by 175k.

ropman76 12y ago

I will take his tame/boring "starups" any day over a large percentage of the startups I see on TechCrunch and Pando (which I am starting to see many that have tame/boring ideas at scale anyway). His business is profitable, he doesn't need to worry about the problems that come along with accepting VC money, and can sleep in during rush hour (sold me right there LOL). Many startups are high risk with a high reward long shot with just as high failure rate. So I will take lame but profitable ideas to the bank anytime.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

tptacek 12y ago

It's not an unpopular opinion; it's just concern trolling.

surfy 12y ago

I like his ideas. He needs someone to do the marketing and increase those numbers.

surfy 12y ago

I like his ideas. He needs someone to do the marketing and increase those numbers.

staunch 12y ago

patio11 should have teamed up with cperciva to work on Tarsnap years ago. They still should. They'd make a billion for sure.

wglb 12y ago
Take a look at this: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/04/03/fantasy-tarsnap/ 'cperciva likes how the business is.

krapp 12y ago

On the other hand, "boring" ideas stick around longer. Who's going to react negatively to a bingo card creator? Who doesn't need to be reminded of appointments? These are not sexy, world-changing, paradigm shifting ideas but they can be stable money makers.

robryan 12y ago

Is appointment reminder really a small market/ boring idea? I think there is massive potential there. Granted I think it needs a sales team to really get at a lot of the market.

Dewie 12y ago

I guess you have to excuse him for not pursuing the particular status jockeying of nerds, namely working on the absolute most hard, cutting edge and exciting problems/domains.