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The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report. That makes it more difficult to tell w

• patcon 12y ago
  I am by no means an Apple fan anymore, but I feel the exact same way.
• TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  Reminds me a little of how people somehow don't believe McDonalds when they reveal their food sources. Because people love to hate on them, McDs and Apple have higher standards than their competitors.
  • funkybro 12y ago
    See also: Facebook and security/privacy
    • TeMPOraL 12y ago
      Or Google and privacy/surveillance. A lot of criticism is just fashion or signalling.
      • kybernetikos 12y ago
        Confused about these two comments. Are you both literally arguing that Google has higher standards for privacy/surveillance than its competitors and that facebook is better than its competitors for security/privacy?
        • TeMPOraL 12y ago
          Per TazeTSchnitzel's remark on Apple & McDonald's, also Facebook and Google seem to be held by public to a higher standard than other companies.
          • kybernetikos 12y ago
            Ah, I understood that comment as saying that MacDonalds actually do have higher food sourcing standards because of the public scrutiny. There also seems to be an implied complaint here that the public are being hypocritical, however it makes perfect sense that the larger the example, the more people would be interested in holding them to a high standard. This doesn't seem like a bad thing at all.
  • diarg 12y ago
    Is a rational posture, when companies became that BIG they get above the law. I don't trust that companies neither the controls organisms in charge.
• hawleyal 12y ago
  Foxconn has an anti-suicide policy. There's a reason.
  • ceejayoz 12y ago
    Foxconn's suicide rate turns out to be lower than the Chinese general population's suicide rate. They've got the population of a good sized city. Per Wikipedia: > Although the number of workplace suicides at the company was large in absolute terms, the rate is still low when compared to the rest of China. (However, the country has a high suicide rate with over 20 deaths per 100,000 persons.) In 2010, the worst year for workplace suicides at Foxconn with a total of 14 deaths, the total employee count was a reported 930,000 people. The average workplace suicide rate for Foxconn that year was 1.5 per 100,000 making it well below the national average suicide rate (around 7% of the national average). America and most other nations have no-suicide policies, too. Try it and you'll likely find yourself detained and treated involuntarily. I'm not sure why you're considering such a thing to be a shocking fact. Congratulations for proving the parent post's "The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing" statement, though.
    • icebraining 12y ago
      The Foxconn suicide rate is (often significantly) lower than the rate of every US state, let alone China's.
    • maxerickson 12y ago
      Did you see any numbers that compared it to employed people of similar age? (Per http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/chin.pdf http://www.who.int/mental_health/media/chin.pdf suicide rates in China are significantly higher above the age of 60)
    • hawleyal 12y ago
      I think you need to review your position in support of sweatshops and exploitation of people in developing regions. Also, we are talking about statistics posted in China. Are you fucking kidding me?
• aikah 12y ago
  > The problem with Apple criticism is a lot of it seems full of cheap shots and unfair framing, like this Panorama report. Well given Apple insane margins,and other tricks they pull(like tax avoidance in Europe),Apple case stands out more than other brands because of the company reputation,"success" and wealth. > because every idiot journalist looking for a controversial story There is no controversy here.Apple(and other brands) are clearly taking advantage of poor working conditions in China and other Asian countries.Nobody in the west would accept these conditions.I'm talking about the slavery like working conditions that existed in the west at the dawn of the 20th century before workers rebelled against it. In China,well,it's just impossible for such a movement to exist.China is a bloody dictatorship.Western PR just succeeded in convincing us it wasn't. And frankly,that story isn't really about Apple.Judging by the comments below the article,it's more about us and our denial to accept the fact that the comfort we live in is built on the pain and suffering of others on the other side of the planet. And that's how most wealth have been created through history,exploitation,through colonies,slavery, or other means. Some people are fine with it,some people don't care,others think it doesn't exist,others think workers "are treated what they are worth",and have no problem spending insane amounts of money in the end product because of its marketing,and a last group understands that effective modern capitalism is just "rationalized predation". edit: I edited my last sentence because I want to dissociate what thinkers like Adam Smith and others "described",and what we have today.
  • mcphage 12y ago
    > And frankly,that story isn't really about Apple.Judging by the comments below the article,it's more about us and our denial to accept the fact that the comfort we live in is built on the pain and suffering of others on the other side of the planet. I agree. But the problem with framing it in terms of Apple (like these articles often do) is that it provides people an easy out: "Oh, those Apple people are bad eggs, I would never buy something they make!". But it's not just Apple, it's our entire economy, and we as a culture won't ever have to face it if it's pinned on one or two companies.
• WorldWideWayne 12y ago
  There are more idiot Apple apologists than there are idiot journalists, so it should equal out.