4 ms·

For the email situation, why wouldn't you just send it out to 100 customers to get a sample of confusion? Reply to the 10 people who were confused, fix the prob

by dbul 17y ago

For the email situation, why wouldn't you just send it out to 100 customers to get a sample of confusion? Reply to the 10 people who were confused, fix the problems, repeat. Same goes for websites. People send in "HN please review my site" all the time.

sivers 17y ago
Great idea! Wish I would have thought of it years ago. :-)
- dbul 17y ago
  But your point does stand for websites. Politely asking people to review your site on HN will allow for some great feedback, but you really only get one shot at it. Anyone know if a service exists (-MTurk) where you can pay people to constantly review your site? I think that'd be an awesome way to evolve a website. Just apply constant feedback by paying people to launching fast and iterating.
  - diN0bot 17y ago
    that's what the non-tech guy on our team is for (among others things). constant user studies. you have to be hitting the right crowd. asking advice from HN or random people only works if your site is meant to have universal appeal. HN in particular is a heavily skewed audience.
    - pbhjpbhj 17y ago
      Once he's been on the team for a short time though, and if he's used the website a lot, then he's not going to provide the newcomers or non-technologists perspective. This is a situation in which increased knowledge of the user decreases their worth to the process. It's very hard to pretend to yourself that you haven't seen something before and imagine your reaction - was that logo clear in its affordance?, etc.. [please don't crucify me for my punctuation!]
  - slig 17y ago
    Not sure if this is what you're looking for: http://www.feedbackarmy.com/ http://www.feedbackarmy.com/
  - imp 17y ago
    There's FiveSecondTest (http://www.fivesecondtest.com/ http://www.fivesecondtest.com/) that shows an image of your website for five seconds and asks users for their feedback. Not enough time for users to read all the text, but it's good at seeing if your general point is getting across. It's free too.
  - dstorrs 17y ago
    Thanks for posting this. This is something I really need, and the replies to your post were helpful. OOC, why -MTurk? Because you knew about them and were looking for alternatives, or because you don't like them?
    - dbul 17y ago
      Concise answer: MTurk was an obvious, yet too simple solution. Long answer: My imagination was something designed specifically for pushing websites to some degree of success. So without me having to think of all of the different dimensions that bring a site to success (clearly state what it is, beautiful design, something people want, easy to use) -- the site I have in mind would walk you through that process taking your money at iterations of each step. In the end, you should have a site that meets the standards of sites which are already winners with most if not all of the dimensions in question.
Ixiaus 17y ago
That's a trial and error process of proof reading your writing. Inefficient IMHO. A solid approach would be clarity of writing through lucid and cogent thought; if your thinking is clouded so is your writing. It never hurts to read aloud your email to be sure it "sounds" right but that is, I assume, something everyone practices before they post, email, or submit.
- Psyonic 17y ago
  "but that is, I assume, something everyone practices before they post, email, or submit" I like your optimism, but I'm guessing the majority of people do not in fact read things aloud before submitting. I'm sure it's different when sending an email to thousands of customers, but the quality of comments on any forum site suggests it's nowhere near universal.
- Periodic 17y ago
  That's basically using an audience of 1. Starting with yourself and checking if it sounds right. After that, you'd probably bounce it to a few people in the office, see what they think. They might pick up on something that sounds clear to you, but doesn't make sense to other people. Finally, you would want to bounce it to a few customers. Everyone inside the company is going to have a similar set of knowledge and assumptions when they look at the email, the only way to really be sure is to send it out. I don't think he's saying you should write down some random thoughts and test them, but rather as a final proof-reading step before sending it out to everyone.
- scott_s 17y ago
  Even lucid, cogent thought can result in confusing prose. Proofreading your own writing is necessary, but not sufficient. The problem is that, for you, the abstract thoughts in your head came first, and the prose came second. When you re-read your prose, you're reminded about all of the implications of the abstract thoughts in your head. When someone else reads your text for the first time, they have to construct the abstract thoughts from your words alone. This process reveals confusion that you probably would not find on your own.

by dbul 17y ago

sivers 17y ago

Great idea! Wish I would have thought of it years ago. :-)

dbul 17y ago
But your point does stand for websites. Politely asking people to review your site on HN will allow for some great feedback, but you really only get one shot at it. Anyone know if a service exists (-MTurk) where you can pay people to constantly review your site? I think that'd be an awesome way to evolve a website. Just apply constant feedback by paying people to launching fast and iterating.
- diN0bot 17y ago
  that's what the non-tech guy on our team is for (among others things). constant user studies. you have to be hitting the right crowd. asking advice from HN or random people only works if your site is meant to have universal appeal. HN in particular is a heavily skewed audience.
  - pbhjpbhj 17y ago
    Once he's been on the team for a short time though, and if he's used the website a lot, then he's not going to provide the newcomers or non-technologists perspective. This is a situation in which increased knowledge of the user decreases their worth to the process. It's very hard to pretend to yourself that you haven't seen something before and imagine your reaction - was that logo clear in its affordance?, etc.. [please don't crucify me for my punctuation!]
- slig 17y ago
  Not sure if this is what you're looking for: http://www.feedbackarmy.com/ http://www.feedbackarmy.com/
- imp 17y ago
  There's FiveSecondTest (http://www.fivesecondtest.com/ http://www.fivesecondtest.com/) that shows an image of your website for five seconds and asks users for their feedback. Not enough time for users to read all the text, but it's good at seeing if your general point is getting across. It's free too.
- dstorrs 17y ago
  Thanks for posting this. This is something I really need, and the replies to your post were helpful. OOC, why -MTurk? Because you knew about them and were looking for alternatives, or because you don't like them?
  - dbul 17y ago
    Concise answer: MTurk was an obvious, yet too simple solution. Long answer: My imagination was something designed specifically for pushing websites to some degree of success. So without me having to think of all of the different dimensions that bring a site to success (clearly state what it is, beautiful design, something people want, easy to use) -- the site I have in mind would walk you through that process taking your money at iterations of each step. In the end, you should have a site that meets the standards of sites which are already winners with most if not all of the dimensions in question.

Ixiaus 17y ago

That's a trial and error process of proof reading your writing. Inefficient IMHO. A solid approach would be clarity of writing through lucid and cogent thought; if your thinking is clouded so is your writing. It never hurts to read aloud your email to be sure it "sounds" right but that is, I assume, something everyone practices before they post, email, or submit.

Psyonic 17y ago
"but that is, I assume, something everyone practices before they post, email, or submit" I like your optimism, but I'm guessing the majority of people do not in fact read things aloud before submitting. I'm sure it's different when sending an email to thousands of customers, but the quality of comments on any forum site suggests it's nowhere near universal.
Periodic 17y ago
That's basically using an audience of 1. Starting with yourself and checking if it sounds right. After that, you'd probably bounce it to a few people in the office, see what they think. They might pick up on something that sounds clear to you, but doesn't make sense to other people. Finally, you would want to bounce it to a few customers. Everyone inside the company is going to have a similar set of knowledge and assumptions when they look at the email, the only way to really be sure is to send it out. I don't think he's saying you should write down some random thoughts and test them, but rather as a final proof-reading step before sending it out to everyone.
scott_s 17y ago
Even lucid, cogent thought can result in confusing prose. Proofreading your own writing is necessary, but not sufficient. The problem is that, for you, the abstract thoughts in your head came first, and the prose came second. When you re-read your prose, you're reminded about all of the implications of the abstract thoughts in your head. When someone else reads your text for the first time, they have to construct the abstract thoughts from your words alone. This process reveals confusion that you probably would not find on your own.