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That's a bit disappointing. I was hoping to get one of these bands, but to hear them say that all data is stored on Microsoft's cloud is a bit disconcerting. I

by mabbo 12y ago

That's a bit disappointing. I was hoping to get one of these bands, but to hear them say that all data is stored on Microsoft's cloud is a bit disconcerting. I wanted to track my heart rate while I run. I didn't want to let a large company have direct access to my health information.

blub 12y ago
Is there any band that doesn't upload everything to some cloud? It's super crappy that everything I looked at had some stupid cloud feature.
- at-fates-hands 12y ago
  I've always used a polar heart rate monitor when I play hockey to help me find my VO2 max and my target heart rate range. They're one of the few really accurate heart rate monitors out there. These also have a myriad of other functions. http://www.polar.com/us-en/products/get_active/fitness_crosstraining/loop http://www.polar.com/us-en/products/get_active/fitness_cross... You can find a Polar Loop bracelet with the H7 heart rate monitor strap for around $150.00, which is a lot less than the Microsoft Band: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=polar+h7&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XPolar+Loop+%2B+Polar+H7+heart+rate+monitor&_nkw=Polar+Loop+%2B+Polar+H7+heart+rate+monitor&_sacat=0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=polar+h7&_from=R40&_osa... I apologize in advance for the janky links.
  - e12e 12y ago
    I don't have experience with any, but after some searching, it appears the various Mio[1] bands might be a good bet? Appears to be more open that the polar products, unless I'm missing something. I also found: https://github.com/mlt/schwinn810 https://github.com/mlt/schwinn810 Does anyone have any experience with either? [1] http://www.mioglobal.com/en-uk/compare-mio-heart-rate-monitors.htm http://www.mioglobal.com/en-uk/compare-mio-heart-rate-monito...
  - scblock 12y ago
    And by "one of the few" you mean "one of the many". Heart rate monitoring is not terribly difficult or magical.
- ISL 12y ago
  The Garmin Fenix can be mounted as a mass-storage device. It outputs in both "FIT" and GPX formats. If the proprietary Garmin software isn't used, it just appears like a USB key. I just mount it with a Linux box and copy it whereever I want (including uploading to Garmin's cloud service).
ultramancool 12y ago
Well, theoretically you could simply add that to your hosts file permanently or patch their app to send the info to your server instead then write your own web application to handle it. Or fully reverse engineer the interaction with the hardware and write a new smartphone app instead.
- lhl 12y ago
  Yeah, you can either mitm or just block prodwus0sts.blob.core.windows.net to prevent data from being PUT to Microsoft servers. In that case you'd want to decode the data stream (or access the BTLE sensor access protocol that some people have already reversed, but doesn't seem to be publicly documented anywhere yet)
teddyh 12y ago
“a large company” and their affiliates, business partners, anyone who acquires them, anyone who hacks them, and anyone who bribes or blackmails an employee to get access to the data. (And, of course, the NSA. And their partners, employees, etc.)
chiph 12y ago
If you go to the "Running" tab within the app, then swipe left to show the splits, you can touch the grey heart icon to see your heartrate during your run. Of course, being able to download this data so you can slice/dice it yourself would be way better. It would also be nice for them to release an SDK so you can write applets for the band.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
It is not just your health information. It is what you are doing. It has a GPS and I suppose Wifi triangulation so they can track you outside and inside your house. Are you running? climbing? walking? Your heart rate goes up with a very specific pattern. Are you making love with this thing on? Also a clear heart rate pattern. If you remove this thing when you do it, it is also a very clear signal, normally you will put the device near you when you do, like on a table. Ohh, you know this thing has also a microphone?. They can also track private conversations, like Snowden used to do in the NSA with smartphones. But smartphones use to be way farther than clockwatches to the mouth. If you have a health problem, like a heart murmur, they also know, before you do. Don't get me wrong. I would love to have something like this. But something I control, not someone else.
click170 12y ago
> I wanted to track my heart rate while I run. I didn't want to let a large company have direct access to my health information. This! FFS this! I have yet to find a simple fitness tracker that doesn't literally hold your own data ransom, if they let you export your data at all, and many don't! Every solution that I'm aware of involves MITM-ing the traffic, or something equally nontrivial. I'm looking at you FitBit! FitBit does expose an API but IMO this is insufficient for exactly the reason parent stated: I don't want to let them have direct access to my health information. Everyone in my circles who has a fitness tracker would prefer to be able to export their data without any additional fees, why do none of the trackers cater to this demographic?
- chewxy 12y ago
  I was just complaining the other day that I have to pay $59 to get my data out of fitbit. Jawbone claims that you can download your data for free though
userbinator 12y ago
Agreed; what I think to be an ideal solution would be a band with a USB interface that presents itself as a standard mass storage device, logs its data to one or more files stored on it, and its configuration is also accessible in the same way. NAND flash is cheap - and one of these could also double as a USB drive in the same way as a lot of media players. (Incidentally, I think adding a few extra sensors to an existing wearable media player platform wouldn't be all that difficult; now you get a band that can play music too...) That in no way precludes supplying an app that can automatically parse that data and generate pretty graphs etc. Instead, the only products available from the big companies seem to require some proprietary app to interface them and give very little control of their data - the user's own health data - to the user, which is certainly disappointing and agrees with the trend of devices getting more and more locked-down against their users. They seem to be going out of their way to make it hard to "extract" the data from their devices, almost as if "plug it in and copy the data over" scares them. I specifically mentioned "big companies" because what I find somewhat ironic is that it's the cheap, unbranded far-Eastern manufacturers who are more likely to come up with products based on existing standards than invent their own proprietary protocols. For example http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multifunction-Personallized-Signature-Pedometer-Watch/dp/B00H45TEYC http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multifunction-Personallized-Signatur... is very similar to the concept I have in mind, and it's a completely non-cloud-based device, but the reviews show users complaining that it's "too difficult to use".

by mabbo 12y ago

blub 12y ago

Is there any band that doesn't upload everything to some cloud? It's super crappy that everything I looked at had some stupid cloud feature.

at-fates-hands 12y ago
I've always used a polar heart rate monitor when I play hockey to help me find my VO2 max and my target heart rate range. They're one of the few really accurate heart rate monitors out there. These also have a myriad of other functions. http://www.polar.com/us-en/products/get_active/fitness_crosstraining/loop http://www.polar.com/us-en/products/get_active/fitness_cross... You can find a Polar Loop bracelet with the H7 heart rate monitor strap for around $150.00, which is a lot less than the Microsoft Band: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=polar+h7&_from=R40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XPolar+Loop+%2B+Polar+H7+heart+rate+monitor&_nkw=Polar+Loop+%2B+Polar+H7+heart+rate+monitor&_sacat=0 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=polar+h7&_from=R40&_osa... I apologize in advance for the janky links.
- e12e 12y ago
  I don't have experience with any, but after some searching, it appears the various Mio[1] bands might be a good bet? Appears to be more open that the polar products, unless I'm missing something. I also found: https://github.com/mlt/schwinn810 https://github.com/mlt/schwinn810 Does anyone have any experience with either? [1] http://www.mioglobal.com/en-uk/compare-mio-heart-rate-monitors.htm http://www.mioglobal.com/en-uk/compare-mio-heart-rate-monito...
- scblock 12y ago
  And by "one of the few" you mean "one of the many". Heart rate monitoring is not terribly difficult or magical.
ISL 12y ago
The Garmin Fenix can be mounted as a mass-storage device. It outputs in both "FIT" and GPX formats. If the proprietary Garmin software isn't used, it just appears like a USB key. I just mount it with a Linux box and copy it whereever I want (including uploading to Garmin's cloud service).

ultramancool 12y ago

Well, theoretically you could simply add that to your hosts file permanently or patch their app to send the info to your server instead then write your own web application to handle it. Or fully reverse engineer the interaction with the hardware and write a new smartphone app instead.

lhl 12y ago
Yeah, you can either mitm or just block prodwus0sts.blob.core.windows.net to prevent data from being PUT to Microsoft servers. In that case you'd want to decode the data stream (or access the BTLE sensor access protocol that some people have already reversed, but doesn't seem to be publicly documented anywhere yet)

teddyh 12y ago

“a large company” and their affiliates, business partners, anyone who acquires them, anyone who hacks them, and anyone who bribes or blackmails an employee to get access to the data. (And, of course, the NSA. And their partners, employees, etc.)

chiph 12y ago

If you go to the "Running" tab within the app, then swipe left to show the splits, you can touch the grey heart icon to see your heartrate during your run. Of course, being able to download this data so you can slice/dice it yourself would be way better. It would also be nice for them to release an SDK so you can write applets for the band.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

It is not just your health information. It is what you are doing. It has a GPS and I suppose Wifi triangulation so they can track you outside and inside your house. Are you running? climbing? walking? Your heart rate goes up with a very specific pattern. Are you making love with this thing on? Also a clear heart rate pattern. If you remove this thing when you do it, it is also a very clear signal, normally you will put the device near you when you do, like on a table. Ohh, you know this thing has also a microphone?. They can also track private conversations, like Snowden used to do in the NSA with smartphones. But smartphones use to be way farther than clockwatches to the mouth. If you have a health problem, like a heart murmur, they also know, before you do. Don't get me wrong. I would love to have something like this. But something I control, not someone else.

click170 12y ago

> I wanted to track my heart rate while I run. I didn't want to let a large company have direct access to my health information. This! FFS this! I have yet to find a simple fitness tracker that doesn't literally hold your own data ransom, if they let you export your data at all, and many don't! Every solution that I'm aware of involves MITM-ing the traffic, or something equally nontrivial. I'm looking at you FitBit! FitBit does expose an API but IMO this is insufficient for exactly the reason parent stated: I don't want to let them have direct access to my health information. Everyone in my circles who has a fitness tracker would prefer to be able to export their data without any additional fees, why do none of the trackers cater to this demographic?

chewxy 12y ago
I was just complaining the other day that I have to pay $59 to get my data out of fitbit. Jawbone claims that you can download your data for free though

userbinator 12y ago

Agreed; what I think to be an ideal solution would be a band with a USB interface that presents itself as a standard mass storage device, logs its data to one or more files stored on it, and its configuration is also accessible in the same way. NAND flash is cheap - and one of these could also double as a USB drive in the same way as a lot of media players. (Incidentally, I think adding a few extra sensors to an existing wearable media player platform wouldn't be all that difficult; now you get a band that can play music too...) That in no way precludes supplying an app that can automatically parse that data and generate pretty graphs etc. Instead, the only products available from the big companies seem to require some proprietary app to interface them and give very little control of their data - the user's own health data - to the user, which is certainly disappointing and agrees with the trend of devices getting more and more locked-down against their users. They seem to be going out of their way to make it hard to "extract" the data from their devices, almost as if "plug it in and copy the data over" scares them. I specifically mentioned "big companies" because what I find somewhat ironic is that it's the cheap, unbranded far-Eastern manufacturers who are more likely to come up with products based on existing standards than invent their own proprietary protocols. For example http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multifunction-Personallized-Signature-Pedometer-Watch/dp/B00H45TEYC http://www.amazon.co.uk/Multifunction-Personallized-Signatur... is very similar to the concept I have in mind, and it's a completely non-cloud-based device, but the reviews show users complaining that it's "too difficult to use".