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This may be true, but #2 and #4 are pretty weak explanations. #2: There's no such thing as "Traditional Korean" (just South Korean, and North Korean), so sayin

This may be true, but #2 and #4 are pretty weak explanations. #2: There's no such thing as "Traditional Korean" (just South Korean, and North Korean), so saying that they don't speak "Traditional Korean" in NK is pretty severely misunderstanding the language. The Korean locale/encoding is very easily changed as a setting, obviously, but it's also possibly used by NK hackers because it would let North Koreans type in Korean. Saying "North Koreans don't speak the same kind of Korean as spoke in South Korea, and thus wouldn't have a Korean locale set" is kind of like saying "Americans have their own dialect of English as distinct from the British, so they probably will not have any English-language keyboards." #4. Doesn't the fact that the hack seems to be for retribution and not for personal gain precisely fit the motives of a propaganda-oriented country? Would you expect a dictatorship that works on propaganda and political influence to really negotiate some sort of deal with Sony? My bet is that it's some mercenary hacking group hired by NK, not necessary a state-sponsored thing but by a few high-up individuals within NK --- but not by North Korean hackers themselves.

elsjaako 12y ago
A lot of these points seem weak. #5: Maybe they were trying to avoid the Streisand effect? #6: Why would a disgruntled insider be more media savvy than a state famed for propaganda? #8/#9: while this may be true, neither provides much evidence for or against the DPRK being the attacker #10 isn't even an argument.
aw3c2 12y ago
> #4. Doesn't the fact that the hack seems to be for retribution and not for personal gain precisely fit the motives of a propaganda-oriented country? Yes, it could just be US agencies filling the anti-NK propanganda machine via ridicule.
- potatoyogurt 12y ago
  NK does plenty to fuel the anti-NK propaganda machine by itself. It doesn't need the US's support.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    Actually, it does absolutely nothing. (Except maybe to its own people -- but that's their internal politics, not for foreigners to judge, especially since they are so selective about which countries they judge cough SA cough)
    - spacecowboy_lon 12y ago
      err the people kidnaped and taken to NK would disagree
      - psykovsky 12y ago
        The ones kidnaped and taken to Guantanamo would disagree also.
        pyre 12y ago
        So... the people taken to Guantanamo would disagree that the North Korean government does nothing to warrant the negative publicity that it gets?
    - rtpg 12y ago
      Except for shelling SK every once in a while, testing nukes, threatening SK with total devastation.
      - coldtea 12y ago
        >Except for shelling SK every once in a while, testing nukes, threatening SK with total devastation They are two countries that used to be one and had a civil war. What do you expect? Flowers and cakes? How about countries that non only test, but have actually used nukes in wars (2 of them, on civilians), as well as countries that regularly invade other countries, including countries that have nothing to do with them (e.g. Korea itself, Vietnam, etc)... People in glasshouses et al...
        12y ago
coldtea 12y ago
>Doesn't the fact that the hack seems to be for retribution and not for personal gain precisely fit the motives of a propaganda-oriented country? Would you expect a dictatorship that works on propaganda and political influence to really negotiate some sort of deal with Sony? So, like US agencies pretending to be North Korea?
- davidw 12y ago
  Welton's law of online discussions: At some point, somewhere, someone will posit that "it's all the US' fault!". This doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but in certain cases, like the fall of the Roman empire, the evidence is probably kind of weak, unless your alien friends have let you in on the existence of a CIA time machine. You guys can downvote all you want, but the law is true. Get a big enough discussion on any political topic, and someone will explain how the US is the root cause of whatever problem.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >This doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but in certain cases, like the fall of the Roman empire, the evidence is probably kind of weak, unless your alien friends have let you in on the existence of a CIA time machine. The evidence for covert operations is by definition weak. The historical precedent though of other acts (that have been verified or been unclassified) in the past 60 years, speaks volumes... Let's put it this way: countries with global reach, and interests in controlling the whole world, especially areas with natural resources, trade ways and such, are not that many. Even less have worldwide operations, tons of equipment and expertise, the most well oiled armies/agencies in the world, and a historical penchant for messing outside their borders (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh )and crude propaganda (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird ). And even fewer believe in things like "Manifest Destiny" or that they are the model country for the world (hardly any European country believes such crap, besides maybe Germany, and that didn't turn out that well for them). I don't think NK is one of them. It might qualify for some stuff (dellusion, crude propaganda, but then again noone outside their borders believes it), but it hardly qualifies for others...
stedaniels 12y ago
#5 is a contradiction of #1.. If someone's already pretending that the hack was perpetrated by DPRK then #5 would have been their primary pretend reason. The whole article is weak.
kijin 12y ago
Yeah, the "Traditional Korean" bullshit totally destroys the article's credibility. What's the alternative? Simplified Korean? Somebody's confusing Korean with Chinese here. The author also suggests that North Korean material is likely to contain Chinese; this is also bullshit. As part of its ultra-nationalistic ideology, North Korea has been trying for decades to purge their language of loan words, including Chinese. On the other hand, (Traditional) Chinese letters are routinely found in many South Korean publications even nowadays. Besides, no modern operating system even supports the ko_KP locale, so anyone in Pyongyang who wants to use foreign-made programs will have to resort to ko_KR. For all we know, the hacker could have been a South Korean teenager with Japanese citizenship living in Hong Kong or whatever.

elsjaako 12y ago

A lot of these points seem weak. #5: Maybe they were trying to avoid the Streisand effect? #6: Why would a disgruntled insider be more media savvy than a state famed for propaganda? #8/#9: while this may be true, neither provides much evidence for or against the DPRK being the attacker #10 isn't even an argument.

aw3c2 12y ago

> #4. Doesn't the fact that the hack seems to be for retribution and not for personal gain precisely fit the motives of a propaganda-oriented country? Yes, it could just be US agencies filling the anti-NK propanganda machine via ridicule.

potatoyogurt 12y ago
NK does plenty to fuel the anti-NK propaganda machine by itself. It doesn't need the US's support.
- coldtea 12y ago
  Actually, it does absolutely nothing. (Except maybe to its own people -- but that's their internal politics, not for foreigners to judge, especially since they are so selective about which countries they judge cough SA cough)
  - spacecowboy_lon 12y ago
    err the people kidnaped and taken to NK would disagree
    - psykovsky 12y ago
      The ones kidnaped and taken to Guantanamo would disagree also.
      - pyre 12y ago
        So... the people taken to Guantanamo would disagree that the North Korean government does nothing to warrant the negative publicity that it gets?
  - rtpg 12y ago
    Except for shelling SK every once in a while, testing nukes, threatening SK with total devastation.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      >Except for shelling SK every once in a while, testing nukes, threatening SK with total devastation They are two countries that used to be one and had a civil war. What do you expect? Flowers and cakes? How about countries that non only test, but have actually used nukes in wars (2 of them, on civilians), as well as countries that regularly invade other countries, including countries that have nothing to do with them (e.g. Korea itself, Vietnam, etc)... People in glasshouses et al...
      - 12y ago

coldtea 12y ago

>Doesn't the fact that the hack seems to be for retribution and not for personal gain precisely fit the motives of a propaganda-oriented country? Would you expect a dictatorship that works on propaganda and political influence to really negotiate some sort of deal with Sony? So, like US agencies pretending to be North Korea?

davidw 12y ago
Welton's law of online discussions: At some point, somewhere, someone will posit that "it's all the US' fault!". This doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but in certain cases, like the fall of the Roman empire, the evidence is probably kind of weak, unless your alien friends have let you in on the existence of a CIA time machine. You guys can downvote all you want, but the law is true. Get a big enough discussion on any political topic, and someone will explain how the US is the root cause of whatever problem.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >This doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but in certain cases, like the fall of the Roman empire, the evidence is probably kind of weak, unless your alien friends have let you in on the existence of a CIA time machine. The evidence for covert operations is by definition weak. The historical precedent though of other acts (that have been verified or been unclassified) in the past 60 years, speaks volumes... Let's put it this way: countries with global reach, and interests in controlling the whole world, especially areas with natural resources, trade ways and such, are not that many. Even less have worldwide operations, tons of equipment and expertise, the most well oiled armies/agencies in the world, and a historical penchant for messing outside their borders (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh )and crude propaganda (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird ). And even fewer believe in things like "Manifest Destiny" or that they are the model country for the world (hardly any European country believes such crap, besides maybe Germany, and that didn't turn out that well for them). I don't think NK is one of them. It might qualify for some stuff (dellusion, crude propaganda, but then again noone outside their borders believes it), but it hardly qualifies for others...

stedaniels 12y ago

#5 is a contradiction of #1.. If someone's already pretending that the hack was perpetrated by DPRK then #5 would have been their primary pretend reason. The whole article is weak.

kijin 12y ago

Yeah, the "Traditional Korean" bullshit totally destroys the article's credibility. What's the alternative? Simplified Korean? Somebody's confusing Korean with Chinese here. The author also suggests that North Korean material is likely to contain Chinese; this is also bullshit. As part of its ultra-nationalistic ideology, North Korea has been trying for decades to purge their language of loan words, including Chinese. On the other hand, (Traditional) Chinese letters are routinely found in many South Korean publications even nowadays. Besides, no modern operating system even supports the ko_KP locale, so anyone in Pyongyang who wants to use foreign-made programs will have to resort to ko_KR. For all we know, the hacker could have been a South Korean teenager with Japanese citizenship living in Hong Kong or whatever.