8 ms·

For those eager to read ahead, they are very, very careful in this article not to imply in any way that this is definitely from any sort of living sources. > O

by swombat 12y ago

For those eager to read ahead, they are very, very careful in this article not to imply in any way that this is definitely from any sort of living sources. > Organic molecules, which contain carbon and usually hydrogen, are chemical building blocks of life, although they can exist without the presence of life. Curiosity's findings from analyzing samples of atmosphere and rock powder do not reveal whether Mars has ever harbored living microbes, but the findings do shed light on a chemically active modern Mars and on favorable conditions for life on ancient Mars. Shame. I for one am looking forward to reading about actual life on Mars within my lifetime. Hopefully active life. We shall see.

manachar 12y ago
> Shame Poor word choice. There's no shame in being careful about the science and trying to represent it carefully in your press releases. Many non-science types do not know that organic molecules can exist without life and will already be jumping to conclusions.
- aaroninsf 12y ago
  I believe OP shares your sentiments, and that you mistake the usage here. 'Shame' as used here is shorthand for 'that's a shame,' which used colloquially to express disappointment colored with sympathy and understanding, does not imply that any of the nominal subjects is being criticized. Source: I'm a native English speaker.
  - TallGuyShort 12y ago
    I believe this is not the case in the US, at least in my experience. In South Africa people say "shame" to express pity for someone else (or even just when something is adorable) but when I say it hear I get weird looks :)
    - pdabbadabba 12y ago
      Native U.S. English speaker here: we do use the word "shame" as GP describes. We use "shame" both to say that someone should be ashamed and also to express general disappointment. (Though we would not use the word to talk about something that's merely adorable.) To my U.S.-English ears, swombat's use of the word "shame" seemed clearly of the "general disappointment" variety.
      - tomrod 12y ago
        In the U.S. don't we generally use "for shame" when berating?
        pdabbadabba 12y ago
        Yes. But here the writer simply began a statement with the word "shame" and proceeded to give a sober explanation consistent more with disappointment than outrage. In this context, I think the better interpretation of the writer's sentiment is to read "shame" as, essentially, short for "it's a shame" rather than "for shame!"
    - publicfig 12y ago
      No, it is definitely a case in the US. In his sentence, you could expand it to "That's a shame" or "That's a crying shame", both idioms that can express that something is "unfortunate" or "disappointing", and does not always require a blame.
    - ChristianBundy 12y ago
      I'm a native English speaker and I was born and raised in the US (specifically the Pacific Northwest), and "shame" isn't weird at all. It's used to express disappointment – with or without blame.
    - TallGuyShort 12y ago
      Thanks for the responses everyone. I've been in the US 15 years now and I'm still never 100% sure about dialect differences :)
  - Florin_Andrei 12y ago
    Isn't 'pity' fairly similar, or is it more commonly used in British English?
    - cbd1984 12y ago
      'Pity' would be a Britishism in this context, yes.
Thieum22 12y ago
It may be comforting that considering the Great Filter theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter ) finding life on mars might actually be bad news.
- omgitstom 12y ago
  It matters what stage of life is found on Mars. Regardless, one data point even if it is our own solar system won't be enough for us to determine what/where the Great Filter or Great Filters could be.
- givan 12y ago
  Great filter theory is pure speculation because this is the only thing you can have in absence of any data on the subject. Beyond our solar system the best data we have are shadows blocking star light that indicate an exoplanet sometimes they are false alarms being just star (sun) spots, radio waves are something we use at this point in our very young civilization, there is no indication that this is a standard or efficient way of communication to associate missing radio data to absence of other civilizations. In conclusion we have no data about life in the universe to jump to such conclusions or any conclusion, the only thing we can do is continue exploring and speculate on the question if there are advanced civilization capable of contact why aren't they contacting us?
  - roywiggins 12y ago
    Von Neumann probes could reach every star in the galaxy pretty quickly. A civilization with a few million years start on us should have their robotic friends here already, basking in our sun. And there only has to be one civilization that 1) can and 2) does create such probes. If spacefaring civilization is common, it seems awfully unlikely that none of them have done so yet.
    - givan 12y ago
      > it seems awfully unlikely that none of them have done so yet. We don't know that, there is no way to detect that with our current technology unless one of the probes land on earth and the government/military agrees to disclose and confirm the information, maybe this already happened but nobody wants to see it because they are afraid of the implications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave
givan 12y ago
Mars and his satellites have many surprises, maybe we will find something extraordinary there during our lifetime. We should go boldly where man has not gone before. Fly by the comets, visit asteroids, visit the moon of Mars. There’s a monolith there. A very unusual structure on this potato shaped object that goes around Mars once in seven hours. When people find out about that they’re going to say ‘Who put that there? Who put that there?’ The universe put it there. If you choose, God put it there.. Astronaut Buzz Aldrin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28moon%29#Proposed_missions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28moon%29#Proposed_miss...
WalterBright 12y ago
Let's face it, like the canals, there is no life on Mars. 40 years of probes have come up empty. It's a sterile rock. We should be thinking in terms of terraforming it by seeding it with terrestrial life.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  40 years of probes haven't been testing for it. To my knowledge, the last formal attempt at actual detection of life (not conditions for life, but life) was the 1970s Viking landers. There's not even scientific agreement on the right way to search. Meanwhile, here on Earth, we thought until recently that deep sea vents were sterile. If we didn't know life's limits here, we certainly can't claim to know them on Mars.

by swombat 12y ago

manachar 12y ago

> Shame Poor word choice. There's no shame in being careful about the science and trying to represent it carefully in your press releases. Many non-science types do not know that organic molecules can exist without life and will already be jumping to conclusions.

aaroninsf 12y ago
I believe OP shares your sentiments, and that you mistake the usage here. 'Shame' as used here is shorthand for 'that's a shame,' which used colloquially to express disappointment colored with sympathy and understanding, does not imply that any of the nominal subjects is being criticized. Source: I'm a native English speaker.
- TallGuyShort 12y ago
  I believe this is not the case in the US, at least in my experience. In South Africa people say "shame" to express pity for someone else (or even just when something is adorable) but when I say it hear I get weird looks :)
  - pdabbadabba 12y ago
    Native U.S. English speaker here: we do use the word "shame" as GP describes. We use "shame" both to say that someone should be ashamed and also to express general disappointment. (Though we would not use the word to talk about something that's merely adorable.) To my U.S.-English ears, swombat's use of the word "shame" seemed clearly of the "general disappointment" variety.
    - tomrod 12y ago
      In the U.S. don't we generally use "for shame" when berating?
      - pdabbadabba 12y ago
        Yes. But here the writer simply began a statement with the word "shame" and proceeded to give a sober explanation consistent more with disappointment than outrage. In this context, I think the better interpretation of the writer's sentiment is to read "shame" as, essentially, short for "it's a shame" rather than "for shame!"
  - publicfig 12y ago
    No, it is definitely a case in the US. In his sentence, you could expand it to "That's a shame" or "That's a crying shame", both idioms that can express that something is "unfortunate" or "disappointing", and does not always require a blame.
  - ChristianBundy 12y ago
    I'm a native English speaker and I was born and raised in the US (specifically the Pacific Northwest), and "shame" isn't weird at all. It's used to express disappointment – with or without blame.
  - TallGuyShort 12y ago
    Thanks for the responses everyone. I've been in the US 15 years now and I'm still never 100% sure about dialect differences :)
- Florin_Andrei 12y ago
  Isn't 'pity' fairly similar, or is it more commonly used in British English?
  - cbd1984 12y ago
    'Pity' would be a Britishism in this context, yes.

Thieum22 12y ago

It may be comforting that considering the Great Filter theory ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter ) finding life on mars might actually be bad news.

omgitstom 12y ago
It matters what stage of life is found on Mars. Regardless, one data point even if it is our own solar system won't be enough for us to determine what/where the Great Filter or Great Filters could be.
givan 12y ago
Great filter theory is pure speculation because this is the only thing you can have in absence of any data on the subject. Beyond our solar system the best data we have are shadows blocking star light that indicate an exoplanet sometimes they are false alarms being just star (sun) spots, radio waves are something we use at this point in our very young civilization, there is no indication that this is a standard or efficient way of communication to associate missing radio data to absence of other civilizations. In conclusion we have no data about life in the universe to jump to such conclusions or any conclusion, the only thing we can do is continue exploring and speculate on the question if there are advanced civilization capable of contact why aren't they contacting us?
- roywiggins 12y ago
  Von Neumann probes could reach every star in the galaxy pretty quickly. A civilization with a few million years start on us should have their robotic friends here already, basking in our sun. And there only has to be one civilization that 1) can and 2) does create such probes. If spacefaring civilization is common, it seems awfully unlikely that none of them have done so yet.
  - givan 12y ago
    > it seems awfully unlikely that none of them have done so yet. We don't know that, there is no way to detect that with our current technology unless one of the probes land on earth and the government/military agrees to disclose and confirm the information, maybe this already happened but nobody wants to see it because they are afraid of the implications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave

givan 12y ago

Mars and his satellites have many surprises, maybe we will find something extraordinary there during our lifetime. We should go boldly where man has not gone before. Fly by the comets, visit asteroids, visit the moon of Mars. There’s a monolith there. A very unusual structure on this potato shaped object that goes around Mars once in seven hours. When people find out about that they’re going to say ‘Who put that there? Who put that there?’ The universe put it there. If you choose, God put it there.. Astronaut Buzz Aldrin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28moon%29#Proposed_missions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_%28moon%29#Proposed_miss...

WalterBright 12y ago

Let's face it, like the canals, there is no life on Mars. 40 years of probes have come up empty. It's a sterile rock. We should be thinking in terms of terraforming it by seeding it with terrestrial life.

ceejayoz 12y ago
40 years of probes haven't been testing for it. To my knowledge, the last formal attempt at actual detection of life (not conditions for life, but life) was the 1970s Viking landers. There's not even scientific agreement on the right way to search. Meanwhile, here on Earth, we thought until recently that deep sea vents were sterile. If we didn't know life's limits here, we certainly can't claim to know them on Mars.