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> Almost everyone, liberal or conservative, builds their arguments around the idea that there's some mythical golden age that we need to go back to. Except for

by anextio 12y ago

> Almost everyone, liberal or conservative, builds their arguments around the idea that there's some mythical golden age that we need to go back to. Except for most conceptions of socialism/communism (talk of proto-communist hunter gatherer societies notwithstanding). (Non-strawman) communists see communism as a future post-scarcity society, like Star Trek economics. To them, the path to get there must involve ownership models that (to them) are not exploitative. From the very start the idea was to figure out how to arrange society in order that the incentives are maximized to bring about post-scarcity. (Let's not get into a discussion about how well anyone did in attempting to bring that about - that's a very complex topic by itself). So I don't know what you're talking about when you say that socialists are looking to back to some golden past. I read a lot of broad ideological writing as well, so when people make statements that go completely against what adherents of a particular ideology have been saying themselves for over 150 years, well, it's a little jarring. Again, this isn't about any ideology being right or wrong, this is about accuraccy. > There are no better ideas. The biggest mistake you can make is thinking that history is over.

api 12y ago
I think you're misinterpreting me a little. I don't think history is over. I'm just saying that I get the sense that everyone else does. :) I've toyed around with a few radical thoughts recently, but political ideology isn't my bag so it's just private speculation. One is that the problem with socialist schemes is that they don't really address the root of inequality. It's become kind of clear to me that the root is heritable inequality of both the genetic sort and the inherited-privilege sort. So I've speculated a little about some sort of "transhumanist socialism" that would attempt to address inequality at the biological level by making both germ-line and postnatal enhancements universally available. The idea would be to transform humanity itself into a runaway self-improving AI by siphoning off some percentage of GDP and applying it to the artificial redistribution of beneficial adaptations and the augmentation of human intelligence across familial lines. By far the best thing to be taxed here would be inheritance, since the whole aim is to break heritable inequality. It's the sort of idea that would make everyone's head explode. Most dogmatic libertarians would hate it since it contains the word "socialism" and involves some sort of wealth redistribution. Liberals are all greens now that worship the naturalistic fallacy, so they'd all scream "no GMO!" Conservatives would hate it since it's theologically sacrilegious and would disrupt the social order rather deeply. Makes me think I'm on the right track. :)
- anextio 12y ago
  Ah yes, I think we might actually be somewhat on the same page, at least in terms of our exploration of these things.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  >So I've speculated a little about some sort of "transhumanist socialism" that would attempt to address inequality at the biological level by making both germ-line and postnatal enhancements universally available. The idea would be to transform humanity itself into a runaway self-improving AI by siphoning off some percentage of GDP and applying it to the artificial redistribution of beneficial adaptations and the augmentation of human intelligence across familial lines. By far the best thing to be taxed here would be inheritance, since the whole aim is to break heritable inequality. Technically speaking, "anarcho-transhumanism" is an existing ideology, but... PLEASE DO THIS. I'm freaking salivating. I mean, screw "runaway AI", but yes, hell yes, let's go ahead and slaughter inequality and injustice at their source, and unleash everything that people can be and aren't allowed to right now because their "betters" wouldn't get to feel a hierarchical status difference in their retarded ape-brains.
  - minthd 12y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that real time fmri neurofeedback would enable people to train to reduce /eliminate bad feeling due to hierarchy in the near the near future <10 years .
    - api 12y ago
      What you're talking about is "desire control" -- the ability to "choose what you want to want." While you could do what you say, you could also do a billion other things. I consider desire control to be one of the most subversive technologies possible. We are to a great extent enslaved through the manipulation of inborn and conditioned desire. If we can manipulate our own desires... I'd expect the first applications to be essentially medicinal: helping people overcome persistent unwanted urges like addictions, pedophilia, or obsessive compulsive disorders. But think about where it could go from there. Making yourself "want to work" for example could be either empowering or disempowering depending on the context. Making yourself not care about hierarchy could be both as well. For example: how much money could you save if you genuinely no longer cared about status symbols?

by anextio 12y ago

api 12y ago

I think you're misinterpreting me a little. I don't think history is over. I'm just saying that I get the sense that everyone else does. :) I've toyed around with a few radical thoughts recently, but political ideology isn't my bag so it's just private speculation. One is that the problem with socialist schemes is that they don't really address the root of inequality. It's become kind of clear to me that the root is heritable inequality of both the genetic sort and the inherited-privilege sort. So I've speculated a little about some sort of "transhumanist socialism" that would attempt to address inequality at the biological level by making both germ-line and postnatal enhancements universally available. The idea would be to transform humanity itself into a runaway self-improving AI by siphoning off some percentage of GDP and applying it to the artificial redistribution of beneficial adaptations and the augmentation of human intelligence across familial lines. By far the best thing to be taxed here would be inheritance, since the whole aim is to break heritable inequality. It's the sort of idea that would make everyone's head explode. Most dogmatic libertarians would hate it since it contains the word "socialism" and involves some sort of wealth redistribution. Liberals are all greens now that worship the naturalistic fallacy, so they'd all scream "no GMO!" Conservatives would hate it since it's theologically sacrilegious and would disrupt the social order rather deeply. Makes me think I'm on the right track. :)

anextio 12y ago
Ah yes, I think we might actually be somewhat on the same page, at least in terms of our exploration of these things.
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
>So I've speculated a little about some sort of "transhumanist socialism" that would attempt to address inequality at the biological level by making both germ-line and postnatal enhancements universally available. The idea would be to transform humanity itself into a runaway self-improving AI by siphoning off some percentage of GDP and applying it to the artificial redistribution of beneficial adaptations and the augmentation of human intelligence across familial lines. By far the best thing to be taxed here would be inheritance, since the whole aim is to break heritable inequality. Technically speaking, "anarcho-transhumanism" is an existing ideology, but... PLEASE DO THIS. I'm freaking salivating. I mean, screw "runaway AI", but yes, hell yes, let's go ahead and slaughter inequality and injustice at their source, and unleash everything that people can be and aren't allowed to right now because their "betters" wouldn't get to feel a hierarchical status difference in their retarded ape-brains.
- minthd 12y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised to learn that real time fmri neurofeedback would enable people to train to reduce /eliminate bad feeling due to hierarchy in the near the near future <10 years .
  - api 12y ago
    What you're talking about is "desire control" -- the ability to "choose what you want to want." While you could do what you say, you could also do a billion other things. I consider desire control to be one of the most subversive technologies possible. We are to a great extent enslaved through the manipulation of inborn and conditioned desire. If we can manipulate our own desires... I'd expect the first applications to be essentially medicinal: helping people overcome persistent unwanted urges like addictions, pedophilia, or obsessive compulsive disorders. But think about where it could go from there. Making yourself "want to work" for example could be either empowering or disempowering depending on the context. Making yourself not care about hierarchy could be both as well. For example: how much money could you save if you genuinely no longer cared about status symbols?