5 ms·

I've been running 3840x2160 on the 23.8" Dell UP2414Q for the past month, and I couldn't be more pleased. Well, I could if I had it running at 60 Hz rather tha

by darshan 12y ago

I've been running 3840x2160 on the 23.8" Dell UP2414Q for the past month, and I couldn't be more pleased. Well, I could if I had it running at 60 Hz rather than 30 Hz, but having twice the PPI is worth the cut in the frame rate to me without question. I'm using the open source Intel drivers and the on-die GPU of my i7-4770K, and everything works out of the box at 30 Hz. Patches to get things at 60 Hz are in the works, but it's pretty complicated because the software needs to treat the display as two separate 1920x2160 displays due to limitations in the DisplayPort spec. My desktop is where I spend the most time, yet it was the last remaining device I use where there were visible, ugly, distracting pixels everywhere. Now I never see pixels in my daily life, and reading and writing on my desktop have become significantly more pleasant. I highly recommend switching to a high-DPI monitor for anyone who spends much time on the computer (which is probably almost everyone here). Oh, most software works just fine once I manually set the DPI in KDE's system settings. Upgrading to Plasma 5, the only software I use that isn't scaled properly is Chrome. Apparently they're working on it, but I only use Chrome for Netflix, and it's not too bad having tiny browser tabs for that one use.

jacquesm 12y ago
> Now I never see pixels in my daily life Just wait for a bit and that problem will solve itself handily. And then you'll be wishing for the time when you could see pixels.
- expr- 12y ago
  Having a poorer eyesight is not going to make fonts comprised of ten or so square pixels (in a direction) a bigger joy to read. Reading off a low DPI display is not only slower, but it also tires out your eyes faster.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Ah, but having a 30+" screen a few feet from your face and upping the font size in fact does help. It's all about the distance, not about the number of pixels or the font size. So the ideal (for me) is a large high res monitor sitting 3 or more feet away from me. The first hint you're on this path is when your arms start to be too short for reading books and when you are 100% sure that the gray squiggles on that chip used to have meaning.
    - aragot 12y ago
      Even before eyesight problems, it's recommended to have a screen at least at 65cm to avoid forcing eyes to accomodate, which is more or less our arm's length. iPhones are a pleague for eyesight, tablets are slightly better (except that we read them longer) and a huge screen, far away in the distance of the desktop is certainly a good solution.
      - faster 12y ago
        The optimal viewing distance for reading is called the Harmon Distance. It's normally the distance from your knuckles to your elbow. Of course, vision problems and aging can require adjustments, but that's a good starting place.
        jacobolus 12y ago
        > The optimal viewing distance for reading is called the Harmon Distance. I’m not an expert here (I had to look up the Harmon Distance), but from what I understand from other reading about eye strain, this should be rephrased as: “Reading gets less comfortable if the material is any closer than the Harmon Distance, with some variation depending on age and individual differences between people.” In particular, there are two factors that make focusing at close distance uncomfortable: (1) you need to flex the ciliary muscles to focus the lens (this is called “accommodation”), and (2) you need to flex the medial rectus muscles to rotate the eyes inward to point at the same spot (this is called “convergence”). Both sets of muscles start getting strained if you look at a very close object for a long time with no breaks. Looking at further away objects, even all the way out to the horizon, isn’t really a problem though.
        Malician 12y ago
        I think a large screen with large text at a greater distance is far more comfortable. Is there a good source for any reason why closer would be better?
        e12e 12y ago
        Interesting. I've been playing a bit with the Oculus Rift DK2, and if I understand things correctly[1], if/when they up the resolution one more "level" beyond the DK2, it should actually be possible to use for many kinds of work. UI design people will need to realize that mile-high letters on the horizon are better than thin lettering close to the head, first (I'm looking at you, Elite:Dangerous docking bulletin board etc). [1] http://oculusrift-blog.com/oculus-rift-faq/492/ http://oculusrift-blog.com/oculus-rift-faq/492/ No anchors in the page, I'm referring to: "Will the Oculus Rift cause eye strain after extended use? The Oculus Rift causes very little eye strain, particularly compared to other standard displays or headmounts. Normally, when you take a break from using a monitor or TV, the idea is to give your eyes a chance to focus and converge on a distant plane. This is a natural position of rest for your eyes. With the Oculus Rift, your eyes are actually focused and converged in the distance at all times. It’s a pretty neat optical feature."
- Dewie 12y ago
  Maybe we can also look forward to becoming cynical grouches like you with age.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
pdknsk 12y ago
Personally, I wouldn't run at 30Hz if someone paid me for it. And you don't have to either, because 60Hz support for your GPU is available (from kernel 3.17 best I can tell). You may have to enable DP1.2 or MST in your monitor settings to use it.
- vanderZwan 12y ago
  To be fair, low refresh rates are much more bearable on LCD screens they used to be on CRTs, since there is no flicker. (This is assuming the task at hand doesn't require a high refresh rate of course - a reflex based game like an FPS would be a no-go)
  - ChuckMcM 12y ago
    This, is a really important point. LCDs are NOT CRTs. So it isn't that the top left pixel of the screen is getting dimmer and dimmer while the CRT is painting lower pixels, on an LCD it is simply not changing. What "30Hz" means in LCD terms is that if you go to change a pixel, the fastest you can do that is once every 33 mS but during the whole time it isn't changed, it stays the same intensity.
  - imanaccount247 12y ago
    Basic desktop usage is unbearable at 30fps. Just dragging windows around you have to insert a deliberate pause to make sure the pointer is really where you want it to be because the screen is updating so slowly. Flicker is not the problem, slow screen updates are.
    - OxO4 12y ago
      Can confirm, I am running a UP2414Q @ 30 Hz because my 2013 13" MBPr does not support 4k at 60 Hz and it is pretty bad. I am planning on replacing the laptop soon. Otherwise the screen is great and non-4k 24" screens look terrible to my eyes now.
    - darshan 12y ago
      That is completely different from my experience; I think you must have another problem besides the 30 fps frame rate. Perhaps your machine is just having trouble pushing that many pixels? On my machine, animations are just slightly, subtly choppy -- like Android used to be before all the "butter." But there's still very much the sense of instant responsiveness.
kevinchen 12y ago
Possibly off topic, but what do you think about the Dell UP2414Q's color? I saw the 32" version in a store and the viewing angle was pretty bad.
- darshan 12y ago
  I'm not necessarily a good judge of monitor color quality and accuracy, but to my eye, it's fantastic. I'm normally right in front of it, but my partner is off to the side when we watch something on Netflix, and that angle doesn't seem to adversely affect color.
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  The UP2414Q is IPS, so viewing angles should not be a problem.
- jacobolus 12y ago
  I’m really impressed by the Dell UP2414Q. I’d highly recommend it over just about any other external monitor. Color is consistent across the front, and quite accurate. It’s pretty bright with good contrast. And the high resolution is just stunning. The only computer display I’m more impressed with at the moment is the 5k “retina” iMac display.
- final 12y ago
  You probably saw Dell's 28'' 4K monitor, that uses a TN matrix.

by darshan 12y ago

jacquesm 12y ago

> Now I never see pixels in my daily life Just wait for a bit and that problem will solve itself handily. And then you'll be wishing for the time when you could see pixels.

expr- 12y ago
Having a poorer eyesight is not going to make fonts comprised of ten or so square pixels (in a direction) a bigger joy to read. Reading off a low DPI display is not only slower, but it also tires out your eyes faster.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Ah, but having a 30+" screen a few feet from your face and upping the font size in fact does help. It's all about the distance, not about the number of pixels or the font size. So the ideal (for me) is a large high res monitor sitting 3 or more feet away from me. The first hint you're on this path is when your arms start to be too short for reading books and when you are 100% sure that the gray squiggles on that chip used to have meaning.
  - aragot 12y ago
    Even before eyesight problems, it's recommended to have a screen at least at 65cm to avoid forcing eyes to accomodate, which is more or less our arm's length. iPhones are a pleague for eyesight, tablets are slightly better (except that we read them longer) and a huge screen, far away in the distance of the desktop is certainly a good solution.
    - faster 12y ago
      The optimal viewing distance for reading is called the Harmon Distance. It's normally the distance from your knuckles to your elbow. Of course, vision problems and aging can require adjustments, but that's a good starting place.
      - jacobolus 12y ago
        > The optimal viewing distance for reading is called the Harmon Distance. I’m not an expert here (I had to look up the Harmon Distance), but from what I understand from other reading about eye strain, this should be rephrased as: “Reading gets less comfortable if the material is any closer than the Harmon Distance, with some variation depending on age and individual differences between people.” In particular, there are two factors that make focusing at close distance uncomfortable: (1) you need to flex the ciliary muscles to focus the lens (this is called “accommodation”), and (2) you need to flex the medial rectus muscles to rotate the eyes inward to point at the same spot (this is called “convergence”). Both sets of muscles start getting strained if you look at a very close object for a long time with no breaks. Looking at further away objects, even all the way out to the horizon, isn’t really a problem though.
      - Malician 12y ago
        I think a large screen with large text at a greater distance is far more comfortable. Is there a good source for any reason why closer would be better?
      - e12e 12y ago
        Interesting. I've been playing a bit with the Oculus Rift DK2, and if I understand things correctly[1], if/when they up the resolution one more "level" beyond the DK2, it should actually be possible to use for many kinds of work. UI design people will need to realize that mile-high letters on the horizon are better than thin lettering close to the head, first (I'm looking at you, Elite:Dangerous docking bulletin board etc). [1] http://oculusrift-blog.com/oculus-rift-faq/492/ http://oculusrift-blog.com/oculus-rift-faq/492/ No anchors in the page, I'm referring to: "Will the Oculus Rift cause eye strain after extended use? The Oculus Rift causes very little eye strain, particularly compared to other standard displays or headmounts. Normally, when you take a break from using a monitor or TV, the idea is to give your eyes a chance to focus and converge on a distant plane. This is a natural position of rest for your eyes. With the Oculus Rift, your eyes are actually focused and converged in the distance at all times. It’s a pretty neat optical feature."
Dewie 12y ago
Maybe we can also look forward to becoming cynical grouches like you with age.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

pdknsk 12y ago

Personally, I wouldn't run at 30Hz if someone paid me for it. And you don't have to either, because 60Hz support for your GPU is available (from kernel 3.17 best I can tell). You may have to enable DP1.2 or MST in your monitor settings to use it.

vanderZwan 12y ago
To be fair, low refresh rates are much more bearable on LCD screens they used to be on CRTs, since there is no flicker. (This is assuming the task at hand doesn't require a high refresh rate of course - a reflex based game like an FPS would be a no-go)
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  This, is a really important point. LCDs are NOT CRTs. So it isn't that the top left pixel of the screen is getting dimmer and dimmer while the CRT is painting lower pixels, on an LCD it is simply not changing. What "30Hz" means in LCD terms is that if you go to change a pixel, the fastest you can do that is once every 33 mS but during the whole time it isn't changed, it stays the same intensity.
- imanaccount247 12y ago
  Basic desktop usage is unbearable at 30fps. Just dragging windows around you have to insert a deliberate pause to make sure the pointer is really where you want it to be because the screen is updating so slowly. Flicker is not the problem, slow screen updates are.
  - OxO4 12y ago
    Can confirm, I am running a UP2414Q @ 30 Hz because my 2013 13" MBPr does not support 4k at 60 Hz and it is pretty bad. I am planning on replacing the laptop soon. Otherwise the screen is great and non-4k 24" screens look terrible to my eyes now.
  - darshan 12y ago
    That is completely different from my experience; I think you must have another problem besides the 30 fps frame rate. Perhaps your machine is just having trouble pushing that many pixels? On my machine, animations are just slightly, subtly choppy -- like Android used to be before all the "butter." But there's still very much the sense of instant responsiveness.

kevinchen 12y ago

Possibly off topic, but what do you think about the Dell UP2414Q's color? I saw the 32" version in a store and the viewing angle was pretty bad.

darshan 12y ago
I'm not necessarily a good judge of monitor color quality and accuracy, but to my eye, it's fantastic. I'm normally right in front of it, but my partner is off to the side when we watch something on Netflix, and that angle doesn't seem to adversely affect color.
bryanlarsen 12y ago
The UP2414Q is IPS, so viewing angles should not be a problem.
jacobolus 12y ago
I’m really impressed by the Dell UP2414Q. I’d highly recommend it over just about any other external monitor. Color is consistent across the front, and quite accurate. It’s pretty bright with good contrast. And the high resolution is just stunning. The only computer display I’m more impressed with at the moment is the 5k “retina” iMac display.
final 12y ago
You probably saw Dell's 28'' 4K monitor, that uses a TN matrix.