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I'd also really like to see some numbers, because I don't believe that 60% of a $100k/yr. income is lost to "services, utilities, fees, and taxes that you pay w
by camgunz 12y ago
I'd also really like to see some numbers, because I don't believe that 60% of a $100k/yr. income is lost to "services, utilities, fees, and taxes that you pay when earning $100k, that you get for free or don't have to pay if you earn $0".
Is your list "Medicaid and health insurance credits, SSI, food stamps, EITC, FICA..." things that you have to pay, or benefits you get if your income is $0/yr.? For example, you wouldn't get EITC if you had no income, but you wouldn't get food stamps if you had $100k/yr.
I would argue that it's poor framing to compare a hypothetical family with $0/yr. income to one with $100k/yr. income. You bring up childcare as an example, but when you look at a family making, say, $35k/yr., they're largely unqualified for assistance but childcare is almost certainly out of reach for them. $100k/yr. families are paying for childcare, paying tons of taxes, and buying amazing Christmas gifts.
Because only 20% of Americans even make >= $100k/yr., I don't think you can rightly call them middle class. I'm not sure we should really be concerned for those at that income level, I think it's more imperative to start looking at people working full time but still making < $35k/yr. Is there an upper-middle class treadmill? Yeah sure, I'm not even sure what your argument is, that you're not getting rich? Regardless, a treadmill is much better than the alternatives. You imply that until you make $150k/yr., you may as well make $0/yr. This is really just untrue; probably (depending on number of children) it's untrue until you get down around $20k/yr., which is where you start getting into living wage argument territory.
Finally, I'm with you on progressive taxation. Tax tiers make no sense; we need a (simple) tax function. Problem solved.
- zaroth 12y agoSee below for a table. Also, please note, $100k household income != $100k individual income. Although if one parent works and the other stays home to take care of the kids... > Is your list "Medicaid and health insurance credits, SSI, food stamps, EITC, FICA..." things that you have to pay, or benefits you get if your income is $0/yr.? For example, you wouldn't get EITC if you had no income, but you wouldn't get food stamps if you had $100k/yr. I edited in; they don't all fully stack or else it would hit well over $100k. So it's a very complicated calculation (why we need a nice D3 app to show how everything interacts!). For EITC, I think it's fair to count the full $5k which you could get by working just a little, against the cost of working 'too much'. I have not done the math necessary to find the global maxima of public support. Frankly, I'm not sure it's a great idea to make that calculation too easy for everyone to figure out, lest we all start optimizing for it!! Conversely, there are many points in the curve where you are below Net-$0. $63k household income for a family of 4 is probably the global-minima, where you're way below Net-$0. The cost of working is much worse if, for example, you have a qualifying disability but are not vegetative and know how to code. You then have to choose, just stop working and get $30k, or don't go quietly into the night and forgo the entire $30k of SSDI.