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I'm a Romanian, a country that's pretty close to Russia and I am one that suffers for what the Ukrainians are going through with Russia, because I can see how t

I'm a Romanian, a country that's pretty close to Russia and I am one that suffers for what the Ukrainians are going through with Russia, because I can see how the same thing could happen in Basarabia (Moldova) and there are already signs of that. Russia historically has been occupying territories, getting rid of any political dissent by effectively killing or deporting people, while crushing their national identity. I hate Russia for what they did after the secret pact from Yalta, for the soviet induced hunger that happened after that and for the years of communism we endured. It's been only 24 years since we escaped their control and apparently we've been lucky, but now Putin is destroying any chance of having a peaceful neighborhood. War is effectively at our borders and Putin is to be blamed. So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. No, they are not equal. And I hope the Putin administration will receive what it deserves.

osipov 12y ago
>>So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. Don't twist my words. I said governments are becoming more authoritarian. I stand by this statement.
- bad_user 12y ago
  Judging by your other comments, your intent is pretty clear but I'll bite. I strongly disagree that governments are becoming more authoritarian, it's quite the opposite, governments are becoming more liberal and democratic, with the situation improving even in countries such as Libya, Egypt and Morocco. The only reason for why the situation seems bleak to some people is because access to information has become unhindered due to the Internet.
  - pdeuchler 12y ago
    >>> with the situation improving even in countries such as Libya, Egypt and Morocco I don't know enough about Morocco to call you out on that one, but dude... Libya and Egypt? If the current goings-on in those countries forms the basis of your opinion then I think you might need to rethink your position
    - bad_user 12y ago
      I'm not saying that Libya and Egypt are democracies, all I said is that the situation has been improving even there.
  - capisce 12y ago
    Democracy seems to be struggling in some African countries: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-return-of-africas-strongmen-1417798993 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-return-of-africas-strongmen-...
  - adventured 12y ago
    This is mostly accurate. Europe pre-WW2 was overrun with all variations of fascism and authoritarianism. Prior to that, it was still ruled by Kings, Queens, and Imperial rule ala Napoleon.
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  You falsely equated the actions of a few berserk local cops in the US with the Putin regime. You need people to twist your words so that you don't look like an idiot or worse.
  - osipov 12y ago
    It is just ignorant to be unaware of the scale of police brutality in the United States. Educate yourself.
    - xxxyy 12y ago
      It is just ignorant to compare US police brutality to, say, Holodomor, and not see connections between Putin and Stalin.
    - adventured 12y ago
      Police brutality in the US is a problem. It doesn't compare to the slaughter of millions under the former USSR, or the complete shut-down of all freedom of speech and freedom of the press under Putin. If the US were anything like Russia, we couldn't be having this conversation on a heavily trafficked web site like HN located within the US. The US still has the greatest level of freedom of speech of any nation on earth, and the strongest speech protections, even after some of the recent erosion.
vadman 12y ago
Your country was of enormous help to Hitler while attacking the USSR, and the retribution you had to "endure", given everything you did, was astonishingly mild. So spare me your complaints.
- bad_user 12y ago
  The only reason for why Romania joined the Axis, is because of the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact [1] between Hitler and Stalin from 1939, which amongst other things, for us it meant yielding control of Basarabia and Bucovina to the soviet union. This provided the perfect opportunity for the Romanian parliament to be dissolved and for a military dictatorship to seize power in Romania, which is the one responsible for joining the Axis. But yeah, thanks for bringing that up - goes to show that what goes around comes around ;-) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...
- nnq 12y ago
  > given everything you did Man, it's 2014, the people that did anything in WW2 on both sides are long dead. And in the context of that time, "the Allies" included Stalin's Russia (read some history, this tyrant killed more of his own people than there were victims of Hitler's holocaust!), so choosing to support Hitler's Germany against an alliance that included Russia was not necessarily a bad idea at that that time, even morally and ethically speaking. And concerning post-war "retribution" as a way to handle international relationships after a war: basically the only reason Hitler himself came to power in Germany was because this country had to endure an extremely harsh "retribution" post WW1 so maybe the people that made this harsh post WW1 deal really deserved the killings and destruction of WW2! Post WW2 western European countries all benefited from something called the Marshall Plan from the US and of decades of productive cooperation in the EU, regardless of who did what in WW2, whereas the "Eastern Block" countries all got to endure "retribution" and being part of the unhealthy forced economy of the USSR. International politics is something that should be taken separately from concepts such as "fairness" and "correctitude" and "punishing someone for one's bad deeds". You don't punish a whole people for the consequences of what a leader decided, even if they followed that leader. You try to rebuild countries and economies, regardless of what seems "fair" or not, and you try to accelerate economical growth, even if this even means letting 1 in 10 war criminals get away. You optimize social and economical systems for performance so that they can provide the best average "quality of live", even if this means swallowing some shady politics once in a while and occasionally "forgetting" some historical truths when remembering them is not "productive". Thankfully the US, UK and modern Germany get these basic principles right, and I really hope they will have as much of an influence as possible on international politics, in the detriment of Russia and China who, despite the immense economic growth of the last, haven't really gotten to the level where they really understand what "healthy modern democracy" is all about and know how to play "the game" and also make the people happy.
sologoub 12y ago
The politics and history there is much more complicated! I strongly believe that any country put in a position of power will expand the control by any means necessary. Your own history is far from flawless: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre. That said, I strongly doubt Russia has any interest in Moldova or Romania. Putin lost a figurehead in Yanukovich and grabbed what he could out of the ensuing mess. Putin did not start what happened in Ukraine, but rather was extremely opportunistic once it happened.
- dmytrish 12y ago
  There are evidences that Crimea annexation had been prepared for few years before any unrests. There are photos of paramilitary people with Donetsk "People Republic" flags at Russian summer camp Seliger in 2009. Relentless Russian propaganda has been translated all over Eastern Ukraine and Crimea for ten years. Don't get me started on "Putin did not start what happened in Ukraine".
  - sologoub 12y ago
    Eh... Propaganda has been so strong on both sides that I doubt we will ever know the truth. Personally, I'm very conflicted on the question of Crimea and don't think I can comment or discuss unbiasedly.
s_baby 12y ago
>So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. No, they are not equal. And I hope the Putin administration will receive what it deserves. Maybe not equal to you. US has propped up almost countless corrupt regimes and cartels for its own interest. You just don't care when it's happening in Saudi Arabia or Mexico.
supergirl 12y ago
And what makes you think US would have treated Romania better? Please read more about history. Your ignorance is common. For every bad thing Russia did there is an equally bad thing US did. Same goes for any other 2 countries. It's everyone for himself.
- adventured 12y ago
  When did the US annex 1/3 of Latin America? There's no sane comparison to be made between the US and its neighbors, and what the Soviet Union did to Europe. The US - Canadian border for a century was the largest, basically unguarded border in world history. Wake me up when the US invades Canada and starts annexing territory.
  - supergirl 12y ago
    You must be joking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_annexation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_annexation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions#Guatemala_1954 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re... "A decades long civil war ensued in which some 200,000 people were killed, mostly by the US backed military" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9t... "The coup subjected Brazil to a military regime politically aligned to the interests of the United States government" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Too many to dig up. "Under the Reagan Doctrine, the United States provided overt and covert aid to anti-communist guerrillas and resistance movements in an effort to "roll back" Soviet-backed communist governments in Africa, Asia, and Latin America" Are you awake yet?

osipov 12y ago

>>So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. Don't twist my words. I said governments are becoming more authoritarian. I stand by this statement.

bad_user 12y ago
Judging by your other comments, your intent is pretty clear but I'll bite. I strongly disagree that governments are becoming more authoritarian, it's quite the opposite, governments are becoming more liberal and democratic, with the situation improving even in countries such as Libya, Egypt and Morocco. The only reason for why the situation seems bleak to some people is because access to information has become unhindered due to the Internet.
- pdeuchler 12y ago
  >>> with the situation improving even in countries such as Libya, Egypt and Morocco I don't know enough about Morocco to call you out on that one, but dude... Libya and Egypt? If the current goings-on in those countries forms the basis of your opinion then I think you might need to rethink your position
  - bad_user 12y ago
    I'm not saying that Libya and Egypt are democracies, all I said is that the situation has been improving even there.
- capisce 12y ago
  Democracy seems to be struggling in some African countries: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-return-of-africas-strongmen-1417798993 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-return-of-africas-strongmen-...
- adventured 12y ago
  This is mostly accurate. Europe pre-WW2 was overrun with all variations of fascism and authoritarianism. Prior to that, it was still ruled by Kings, Queens, and Imperial rule ala Napoleon.
CamperBob2 12y ago
You falsely equated the actions of a few berserk local cops in the US with the Putin regime. You need people to twist your words so that you don't look like an idiot or worse.
- osipov 12y ago
  It is just ignorant to be unaware of the scale of police brutality in the United States. Educate yourself.
  - xxxyy 12y ago
    It is just ignorant to compare US police brutality to, say, Holodomor, and not see connections between Putin and Stalin.
  - adventured 12y ago
    Police brutality in the US is a problem. It doesn't compare to the slaughter of millions under the former USSR, or the complete shut-down of all freedom of speech and freedom of the press under Putin. If the US were anything like Russia, we couldn't be having this conversation on a heavily trafficked web site like HN located within the US. The US still has the greatest level of freedom of speech of any nation on earth, and the strongest speech protections, even after some of the recent erosion.

vadman 12y ago

Your country was of enormous help to Hitler while attacking the USSR, and the retribution you had to "endure", given everything you did, was astonishingly mild. So spare me your complaints.

bad_user 12y ago
The only reason for why Romania joined the Axis, is because of the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact [1] between Hitler and Stalin from 1939, which amongst other things, for us it meant yielding control of Basarabia and Bucovina to the soviet union. This provided the perfect opportunity for the Romanian parliament to be dissolved and for a military dictatorship to seize power in Romania, which is the one responsible for joining the Axis. But yeah, thanks for bringing that up - goes to show that what goes around comes around ;-) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...
nnq 12y ago
> given everything you did Man, it's 2014, the people that did anything in WW2 on both sides are long dead. And in the context of that time, "the Allies" included Stalin's Russia (read some history, this tyrant killed more of his own people than there were victims of Hitler's holocaust!), so choosing to support Hitler's Germany against an alliance that included Russia was not necessarily a bad idea at that that time, even morally and ethically speaking. And concerning post-war "retribution" as a way to handle international relationships after a war: basically the only reason Hitler himself came to power in Germany was because this country had to endure an extremely harsh "retribution" post WW1 so maybe the people that made this harsh post WW1 deal really deserved the killings and destruction of WW2! Post WW2 western European countries all benefited from something called the Marshall Plan from the US and of decades of productive cooperation in the EU, regardless of who did what in WW2, whereas the "Eastern Block" countries all got to endure "retribution" and being part of the unhealthy forced economy of the USSR. International politics is something that should be taken separately from concepts such as "fairness" and "correctitude" and "punishing someone for one's bad deeds". You don't punish a whole people for the consequences of what a leader decided, even if they followed that leader. You try to rebuild countries and economies, regardless of what seems "fair" or not, and you try to accelerate economical growth, even if this even means letting 1 in 10 war criminals get away. You optimize social and economical systems for performance so that they can provide the best average "quality of live", even if this means swallowing some shady politics once in a while and occasionally "forgetting" some historical truths when remembering them is not "productive". Thankfully the US, UK and modern Germany get these basic principles right, and I really hope they will have as much of an influence as possible on international politics, in the detriment of Russia and China who, despite the immense economic growth of the last, haven't really gotten to the level where they really understand what "healthy modern democracy" is all about and know how to play "the game" and also make the people happy.

sologoub 12y ago

The politics and history there is much more complicated! I strongly believe that any country put in a position of power will expand the control by any means necessary. Your own history is far from flawless: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Odessa_massacre. That said, I strongly doubt Russia has any interest in Moldova or Romania. Putin lost a figurehead in Yanukovich and grabbed what he could out of the ensuing mess. Putin did not start what happened in Ukraine, but rather was extremely opportunistic once it happened.

dmytrish 12y ago
There are evidences that Crimea annexation had been prepared for few years before any unrests. There are photos of paramilitary people with Donetsk "People Republic" flags at Russian summer camp Seliger in 2009. Relentless Russian propaganda has been translated all over Eastern Ukraine and Crimea for ten years. Don't get me started on "Putin did not start what happened in Ukraine".
- sologoub 12y ago
  Eh... Propaganda has been so strong on both sides that I doubt we will ever know the truth. Personally, I'm very conflicted on the question of Crimea and don't think I can comment or discuss unbiasedly.

s_baby 12y ago

>So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. No, they are not equal. And I hope the Putin administration will receive what it deserves. Maybe not equal to you. US has propped up almost countless corrupt regimes and cartels for its own interest. You just don't care when it's happening in Saudi Arabia or Mexico.

supergirl 12y ago

And what makes you think US would have treated Romania better? Please read more about history. Your ignorance is common. For every bad thing Russia did there is an equally bad thing US did. Same goes for any other 2 countries. It's everyone for himself.

adventured 12y ago
When did the US annex 1/3 of Latin America? There's no sane comparison to be made between the US and its neighbors, and what the Soviet Union did to Europe. The US - Canadian border for a century was the largest, basically unguarded border in world history. Wake me up when the US invades Canada and starts annexing territory.
- supergirl 12y ago
  You must be joking. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_annexation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_annexation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions#Guatemala_1954 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re... "A decades long civil war ensued in which some 200,000 people were killed, mostly by the US backed military" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9t... "The coup subjected Brazil to a military regime politically aligned to the interests of the United States government" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Too many to dig up. "Under the Reagan Doctrine, the United States provided overt and covert aid to anti-communist guerrillas and resistance movements in an effort to "roll back" Soviet-backed communist governments in Africa, Asia, and Latin America" Are you awake yet?