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That's a very myopic view and here's why -- virtually all governments in the world are becoming increasingly authoritarian because of the global economic crisis
by osipov 12y ago
That's a very myopic view and here's why -- virtually all governments in the world are becoming increasingly authoritarian because of the global economic crisis and the civilian unrest that it provokes. For example, replace Putin in your sentence and you'll get "United States is increasingly cracking down on any possibility of dissent and threat to it power". You can support that statement with facts about police in Ferguson, US conflicts with China in Asia Pacific, and of course US crackdown on dissidents like Assange and Snowden. You can also try that exercise by replacing Putin with "Greek government".
Demonizing Putin is what your government wants you to do to avoid seeing the bigger picture. The real question is WHY is Putin cracking down on threat to his power?
- okatsu 12y agoI won't disagree that demonizing Putin is what the government wants us to do. I remember how the U.S. funded Saddam to use chemical weapons on Iran and then overthrew him "for the sake of the people." However, it should also be kept in mind that we're still far away from the Russian regime where speaking against the government (releasing classified documents doesn't count) or being a homosexual will land you in jail. So yeah, no one's perfect, but I'll stick to North America for the time being, thanks.
- osipov 12y agoThe situation about gays in Russia, i.e. "being a homosexual will land you in jail" is a meme that Western Corporate Media wants you to believe. Read the facts: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files/RussianLGBTLawWhitePaper.pdf http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files...
- okatsu 12y agoSpeaking in favor of gay rights is considered propaganda and was made illegal last year.
- pandaman 12y agoI know that propaganda of sex to children had been forbidden last year (which makes one wonder, has it really been legal before 2013?), did not know this one. Any links would be appreciated. I can read and write Russian so the law's name would be good enough for me.
- okatsu 12y agoIt's the same law; their logic is that promoting LGBT rights means promoting deviant sexual behaviour, and doing so publicly will inevitably reach children.
- pandaman 12y ago"Their" is referring whom exactly? I don't think Russia is a Common Law country, judges there cannot derive something from a law so whomever you think is interpreting the law. Were not media saying that gay athletes in Sochi are going to be incarcerated using the same logic?
- okatsu 12y ago"Their" referring to the Putin government. You can't really use Sochi as an example. The Olympics are a very important international event and Russia wanted the good publicity. You'll also notice that Putin ordered the release of many political prisoners just in time for that event.
- pandaman 12y agoI see. So Putin has made media to lie. What an asshole!
- osipov 12y agoIt is legal to speak in favor of gay rights. It is illegal for adults to speak in favor of gay rights TO MINORS. Much like it is legal to have sex. And illegal for adults to have sex with minors. The law is explained in detail here: http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files/RussianLGBTLawWhitePaper.pdf http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d0e55f3197099944345708652/files...
- osipov 12y ago> Speaking in favor of gay rights is considered propaganda and was made illegal last year. That's false. EDIT: Again, the statement above is false. It is legal to speak in favor of gay rights. It is illegal for adults to speak in favor of gay rights TO MINORS. Much like it is legal to have sex. And illegal for adults to have sex with minors.
- watt 12y agoNot quite false. Here's the law in question I believe: http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28Spravka%29?OpenAgent&RN=44554-6&02 http://asozd2.duma.gov.ru/main.nsf/%28Spravka%29?OpenAgent&R...
- unprepare 12y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Propaganda_bans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Propagand... No, it isnt. key point from the text: Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships in presence of minors.[5][57][60][64][65]
- osipov 12y agoYou are not parsing the text correctly. It is legal to "hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships" It is illegal "illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in favor of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships _in presence of minors_."
- commentzorro 12y agoInteresting. So how does this play out as a means of controlling moral values in Russia? Can I effectively break up any pro gay rights events just by bringing along enough children? Or does incidental inclusion of minors not count enough to stop an already planned event?
- happyscrappy 12y agoRussia is only a threat to its own citizens and border countries who are not members of NATO. The West was bringing Russia closer, now that trust is gone and will take a long time to repair.
- osipov 12y ago>>The West was bringing Russia closer As part of bringing Russia closer, the West decided to shred Russia of its defense interests inherited from the Soviet Union. There was a systematic attack by the West on Russia's interests in Central Asia, Georgia, Syria, and now Ukraine. You can only bait the bear for so long until it bites you back.
- happyscrappy 12y agoThe bear is rabid but toothless and can be largely ignored except for their actions Ukraine, in which they laughably pretend they are not involved.
- adventured 12y agoNot just toothless, but soon to be insolvent. It should only take another 12 to 18 months with oil below $60 or $70, to thoroughly crash the Russian economy and deplete their reserves (the share of their reserves they can actually use). At that point they'll either effectively capitulate, or they'll instigate a greater war.
- curiously 12y agoYou sound like one of the many Russian comment spam bots from Reddit news threads about anything Russian.
- osipov 12y agoYou are someone with an account created 69 days ago. A noob. Back in the day both reddit and this place used to have rational discussions. Until noobs like you showed up.
- icelancer 12y ago> virtually all governments in the world are becoming increasingly authoritarian because of the global economic crisis and the civilian unrest that it provokes I agree with the former very much. Not sure the latter is the reason why, but it's a decent enough theory. The fact that authoritarianism is the general trend globally is very disturbing - and there is little to no civilian opposition to this.
- aragot 12y ago> The real question is WHY is Putin cracking down on threat to his power? Sounds like a rhetorical question but I don't guess the answer. Do you mean Putin is doing it because of the civilian unrest? > Demonizing Putin is what your government wants you to do to avoid seeing the bigger picture. No-one is demonizing Putin, they're telling facts. The bigger picture is, censorship is bad, and if US defends the freedom of opinion in Russia, it's good because we can turn those arguments back to the US gov.
- osipov 12y ago>>No-one is demonizing Putin, they're telling facts. Really? Much in the same way that the media of 10 years ago convinced the populace that Hussein was involved with 9/11, the media today is propagating the following memes: - Putin hates gays - Putin kills journalists - Putin was responsible for downing of MH17 How many of these memes are supported by facts? When accusing a leader of a nuclear power of these things, shouldn't the accusations be ironclad?
- Yizahi 12y agoPutin has started Russia-Ukraine war in February and Russian troops has downed MH17 using Russian AA complex. So he is responsible obviously. Putin regime has killed several journalists. The gay thing is not so clear, he may be gay himself.
- notjackma 12y agoWow, you must know something the rest of the world doesn't. If you have evidence that Russian troops shot down flight MH-17 then you should present it to the Dutch parliament and the United Nations. Otherwise, like the rest of us, you should wait for investigators to finish their work.
- dreamweapon 12y agoIf you have evidence that Russian troops... It was the (trigger-happy) proxy forces, more likely.
- Yizahi 12y agoPutin and most of the Russian government are criminals, so it is not hard to see why they are doing it.
- tptacek 12y agoFalse equivalence watch: what Snowden did was so outside the bounds of established law that he'd face prosecution in virtually any administration in American history. His arguments mitigating the offense might be important at a trial, but we can't know, because he fled the country rather than face that trial. The attention paid to Snowden is not in itself evidence of increased authoritarianism in the US. When I think of Putin, I don't so much think of things my government says (in fact, Americans don't generally pay that much attention to what the government says; our legislature is skirting single-digit approval ratings). I think more about news stories about how 4chan-style prank videos of kids having gay porn posters put up on their wall are reported as factual news by Russian state-owned television: http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/12/06/watch-russian-documentary-claims-americans-love-showing-gay-porn-kids http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/12/06/watch-russian-docum...
- jeangenie 12y agoWhat's your point?
- bad_user 12y agoI'm a Romanian, a country that's pretty close to Russia and I am one that suffers for what the Ukrainians are going through with Russia, because I can see how the same thing could happen in Basarabia (Moldova) and there are already signs of that. Russia historically has been occupying territories, getting rid of any political dissent by effectively killing or deporting people, while crushing their national identity. I hate Russia for what they did after the secret pact from Yalta, for the soviet induced hunger that happened after that and for the years of communism we endured. It's been only 24 years since we escaped their control and apparently we've been lucky, but now Putin is destroying any chance of having a peaceful neighborhood. War is effectively at our borders and Putin is to be blamed. So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. No, they are not equal. And I hope the Putin administration will receive what it deserves.
- osipov 12y ago>>So spare me rhetoric about every government or country being the same. Don't twist my words. I said governments are becoming more authoritarian. I stand by this statement.
- bad_user 12y agoJudging by your other comments, your intent is pretty clear but I'll bite. I strongly disagree that governments are becoming more authoritarian, it's quite the opposite, governments are becoming more liberal and democratic, with the situation improving even in countries such as Libya, Egypt and Morocco. The only reason for why the situation seems bleak to some people is because access to information has become unhindered due to the Internet.
- pdeuchler 12y ago>>> with the situation improving even in countries such as Libya, Egypt and Morocco I don't know enough about Morocco to call you out on that one, but dude... Libya and Egypt? If the current goings-on in those countries forms the basis of your opinion then I think you might need to rethink your position
- danmaz74 12y agoLook, I've been to Russia, I know people there, and there is NO WAY you can compare the level of democracy and rule of law we have in western Europe or the US to what there is in Russia now. Lots of Russians were ready to exchange some of their freedom, and to accept a very high level of corruption, as long as their global living standards improved. But now Putin is violating that pact. We'll see what happens.
- xxxyy 12y agoStalin was loved by most of the Russians. There were more tears cried over his death than over Kim Jong-il's, and to this day many Russians keep Stalin's pictures in their homes. I believe that the West underestimates the strength of the Russian people, and their unsatisfied dreams of becoming the world superpower. Sadly, I think that this "violation of the pact" you are writing about is not serious enough to cause a change of power. And even if it was - who should continue ruling Russia? There are no direct candidates, but also I see no long-term perspectives. New democracies that formed after USSR collapse were built upon pre-war traditions. Russia has never seen any democracy. I know that there are many Russians that disagree with their government. I know there are many in jail because of their opinions. But this is a minority. For the average Russian Putin is still the guy.
- kofejnik 12y agoI'd say, we are not demonizing Putin hard enough
- dionidium 12y agoYou can support that statement with facts about police in Ferguson Not really. Ferguson represents a lot of things, but I don't think there's any evidence that it's part of some national crackdown on dissent. How would that even work?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]