6 ms·

Microsoft is accepting BitPay, not Bitcoin. It's like saying that Microsoft is accepting checking account payments, because PayPal supports it.

by kolev 12y ago

martindale 12y ago
BitPay employee here. Around 50% of our merchants actually accept some or all of their settlement in Bitcoin.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- kolev 12y ago
  What's the weighted average of that "some"? I doubt if it's above 10%!
  - laichzeit0 12y ago
    What were you expecting, 100%? This is a new technology. Obviously most people are going to be "cautious" about it. Think about it for a second. Now look back at Bitcoin 5 years ago and compare where we are today. You're really not putting things into perspective.
    - kolev 12y ago
      New technology? Docker is a new technology, yet, it's embraced by everybody and in production. Don't give lame excuses, please! Bitcoin is the third-grade speculator's paradise.
  - bob7a3 12y ago
    I doubt you know how Bitcoin works.
    - kolev 12y ago
      I smell the typical Bitcoin parrot - "you simply don't get it". Really? If I don't get it when I've been using it since 2011 for fun and profit and having 30 years of software engineering experience, then who will get it? You, for whom "HODL" is the gospel and the "allelujah"?! Get a life, seriously! If you didn't get the memo, the $40K apiece is not happening!
      - zulum 12y ago
        Famous last words.
        kolev 12y ago
        I know you guys are heavy on cliches, which are like clutches for your disabled speech.
- yawaworht_ 12y ago
  Posted to /r/bitcoin: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2oypbo/bitpay_employee_here_around_50_of_our_merchants/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2oypbo/bitpay_empl...
- onnoonno 12y ago
  This is interesting. Could you give more detailed information? Volume in BTC vs. volume in $?
  - smaps 12y ago
    This was my first thought as well. They have tons of merchants using them, but I don't think a big percentage are high volume. So it could easily be that 50% of merchants keep some bitcoin, but only 2% of volume is kept that way.
  - bdcravens 12y ago
    Definitely important. A merchant could be an anti-government bead jewelry maker doing $75 a month, or Microsoft. They each count one.
- chatmasta 12y ago
  It seems like a logical move. If a company wants to place a bet on Bitcoin, accepting it for services is a better way to acquire it than selling fiat currency on exchanges. By keeping profit margin in bitcoins, companies position themselves for a reward, without exposure to volatility risk. Avoid the risk of purchasing bitcoin (either through mining hardware, or directly on exchanges), but gain the chance of capitalizing on bitcoin.
DavidSJ 12y ago
You don't need a BitPay account to pay using BitPay. The transaction occurs on the public bitcoin blockchain, from any bitcoin account.
- kolev 12y ago
  You can pay via PayPal without having a PayPal account as well.
tylerritchie 12y ago
> It's like saying that Microsoft is accepting checking account payments, because PayPal supports it. So it's like saying an accurate thing?
- kolev 12y ago
  Microsoft is accepting the US dollar, not Bitcoin.
  - DavidSJ 12y ago
    What is meant by "Microsoft accepting bitcoin" is that you can buy things from Microsoft using bitcoin. Customers don't care about the details of currency exchange on the back-end.
  - tylerritchie 12y ago
    That's silly. That's like saying any brick and mortar small business doesn't accept "credit" because they use a payment processor to process their credit cards. Or that places on the Canadian border don't "accept Canadian currency" because it's immediately exchanged for USD. The fact that not-Microsoft is processing the payment in bitcoins and exchanging it into the currency that Microsoft wants doesn't mean that you can't buy the intended good from Microsoft with bitcoins.
    - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      Yours is a reasonable analogy and it works and it's a good point; it doesn't counter the parent comment IMO. A small business won't accept credit because of the risk, so a third-party will pay the business - for a fee - and take the risk of the credit themselves. The business isn't accepting credit as you point out. Here MS aren't accepting bitcoins they're accepting the use of a third-party that will pay them in dollars on your behalf. What's the point of that distinction? Well if MS truly accept bitcoins themselves then they would have holdings in bitcoins rather than in dollars, they would then be [capable of] trading in bitcoin and would legitimise it somewhat. Here they're not legitimising it to any useful degree, they're allowing BitPay to do all the bitcoin elements. tl;dr - Call me when MS \buy\ something using bitcoins.
TomGullen 12y ago
We accept credit cards on our website... oh whoops sorry I mean we accept Stripe.
hnrandom 12y ago
No Microsoft does accept Bitcoin. They then convert the Bitcoin into USD. The distinction is who hires the middleman to convert. If a merchant asked all customers to first go to BitPay, get USD, then come back and give them the USD, then no they don't accept bitcoin. However, if a merchant takes your bitcoin and then gives you the goods, and after the fact finds the middleman themselves and converts, then they accept bitcoin.
- kolev 12y ago
  Well, tell this to the folks who hold Bitcoin. They love when big merchants start "accepting" Bitcoin, but secretly pray that they won't have much sales as the selling pressure will drag the price down. So, there's a difference as this isn't a highly liquid market. If you pay Microsoft USD via your European credit card, EUR is sold for dollars on the Forex, but given that this is the most liquid market in existence, you're not gonna affect it. On the contrary, we often see on Bitstamp how 100 BTC can drop the price by 5-10% with a weak orderbook. I hope you get my point why there's a practical difference.

Microsoft is accepting BitPay, not Bitcoin. It's like saying that Microsoft is accepting checking account payments, because PayPal supports it.

by kolev 12y ago

Microsoft is accepting BitPay, not Bitcoin. It's like saying that Microsoft is accepting checking account payments, because PayPal supports it.

martindale 12y ago

BitPay employee here. Around 50% of our merchants actually accept some or all of their settlement in Bitcoin.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
kolev 12y ago
What's the weighted average of that "some"? I doubt if it's above 10%!
- laichzeit0 12y ago
  What were you expecting, 100%? This is a new technology. Obviously most people are going to be "cautious" about it. Think about it for a second. Now look back at Bitcoin 5 years ago and compare where we are today. You're really not putting things into perspective.
  - kolev 12y ago
    New technology? Docker is a new technology, yet, it's embraced by everybody and in production. Don't give lame excuses, please! Bitcoin is the third-grade speculator's paradise.
- bob7a3 12y ago
  I doubt you know how Bitcoin works.
  - kolev 12y ago
    I smell the typical Bitcoin parrot - "you simply don't get it". Really? If I don't get it when I've been using it since 2011 for fun and profit and having 30 years of software engineering experience, then who will get it? You, for whom "HODL" is the gospel and the "allelujah"?! Get a life, seriously! If you didn't get the memo, the $40K apiece is not happening!
    - zulum 12y ago
      Famous last words.
      - kolev 12y ago
        I know you guys are heavy on cliches, which are like clutches for your disabled speech.
yawaworht_ 12y ago
Posted to /r/bitcoin: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2oypbo/bitpay_employee_here_around_50_of_our_merchants/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2oypbo/bitpay_empl...
onnoonno 12y ago
This is interesting. Could you give more detailed information? Volume in BTC vs. volume in $?
- smaps 12y ago
  This was my first thought as well. They have tons of merchants using them, but I don't think a big percentage are high volume. So it could easily be that 50% of merchants keep some bitcoin, but only 2% of volume is kept that way.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  Definitely important. A merchant could be an anti-government bead jewelry maker doing $75 a month, or Microsoft. They each count one.
chatmasta 12y ago
It seems like a logical move. If a company wants to place a bet on Bitcoin, accepting it for services is a better way to acquire it than selling fiat currency on exchanges. By keeping profit margin in bitcoins, companies position themselves for a reward, without exposure to volatility risk. Avoid the risk of purchasing bitcoin (either through mining hardware, or directly on exchanges), but gain the chance of capitalizing on bitcoin.

DavidSJ 12y ago

You don't need a BitPay account to pay using BitPay. The transaction occurs on the public bitcoin blockchain, from any bitcoin account.

kolev 12y ago
You can pay via PayPal without having a PayPal account as well.

tylerritchie 12y ago

> It's like saying that Microsoft is accepting checking account payments, because PayPal supports it. So it's like saying an accurate thing?

kolev 12y ago
Microsoft is accepting the US dollar, not Bitcoin.
- DavidSJ 12y ago
  What is meant by "Microsoft accepting bitcoin" is that you can buy things from Microsoft using bitcoin. Customers don't care about the details of currency exchange on the back-end.
- tylerritchie 12y ago
  That's silly. That's like saying any brick and mortar small business doesn't accept "credit" because they use a payment processor to process their credit cards. Or that places on the Canadian border don't "accept Canadian currency" because it's immediately exchanged for USD. The fact that not-Microsoft is processing the payment in bitcoins and exchanging it into the currency that Microsoft wants doesn't mean that you can't buy the intended good from Microsoft with bitcoins.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    Yours is a reasonable analogy and it works and it's a good point; it doesn't counter the parent comment IMO. A small business won't accept credit because of the risk, so a third-party will pay the business - for a fee - and take the risk of the credit themselves. The business isn't accepting credit as you point out. Here MS aren't accepting bitcoins they're accepting the use of a third-party that will pay them in dollars on your behalf. What's the point of that distinction? Well if MS truly accept bitcoins themselves then they would have holdings in bitcoins rather than in dollars, they would then be [capable of] trading in bitcoin and would legitimise it somewhat. Here they're not legitimising it to any useful degree, they're allowing BitPay to do all the bitcoin elements. tl;dr - Call me when MS \buy\ something using bitcoins.

TomGullen 12y ago

We accept credit cards on our website... oh whoops sorry I mean we accept Stripe.

hnrandom 12y ago

No Microsoft does accept Bitcoin. They then convert the Bitcoin into USD. The distinction is who hires the middleman to convert. If a merchant asked all customers to first go to BitPay, get USD, then come back and give them the USD, then no they don't accept bitcoin. However, if a merchant takes your bitcoin and then gives you the goods, and after the fact finds the middleman themselves and converts, then they accept bitcoin.

kolev 12y ago
Well, tell this to the folks who hold Bitcoin. They love when big merchants start "accepting" Bitcoin, but secretly pray that they won't have much sales as the selling pressure will drag the price down. So, there's a difference as this isn't a highly liquid market. If you pay Microsoft USD via your European credit card, EUR is sold for dollars on the Forex, but given that this is the most liquid market in existence, you're not gonna affect it. On the contrary, we often see on Bitstamp how 100 BTC can drop the price by 5-10% with a weak orderbook. I hope you get my point why there's a practical difference.