4 ms·

As a male, I found this horrifying to read. I'm planning to be CEO of a company, and I'm planning to have a child with my wife in the next two years or so. I i

As a male, I found this horrifying to read. I'm planning to be CEO of a company, and I'm planning to have a child with my wife in the next two years or so. I intend to take a month or 2 off with her to tend to her and my future newborn's needs. I have 2 years to plan for that, so I will build the company to ensure that I'm covered to take that time off. By virtue of circumstance, I will never understand what a mother has to deal with in these circumstances, trying to balance work with family. I also don't need to take extended time off to recover. But it's scary to me to think that women feel the need to make these types of sacrifices, and not take care of their family. If the author feels her company is more valuable than her child, that's her choice. But I intend to build my company so that every employee, including my co-founders (one of whom happens to be female) can expect full maternity leave, without pressure from our company. You should be able to take care of yourself and your family, without having to worry if your company is ok, or if your job is still there. Truly astounding that people are ok with this practice. I get that it's more difficult being CEO of your own company, but it's still horrifying to me.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
727374 12y ago
Agree that the read was horrifying based on my family's experience, but we should try to reserve judgement because as males we won't ever have to make quite the same decision that the author made. I doubt the author "feels her company is more valuable than her child". I think more likely she just wound up in an impossible situation. Also, keep in mind that people can't always perfectly time when a pregnancy will begin/end.
- akiselev 12y ago
  In addition, if she is a good CEO she probably feels responsible for her employee's well being. They're not her children nor are they helpless infants, but it is another responsibility that each person values differently in her position.
- Mz 12y ago
  FWIW, I am a woman and I was a full time mom for many years. Here is my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8732852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8732852
  - 001sky 12y ago
    This comment touches on an important issue. Hypercompetition at work[1], in other words, leads to local, not globsl maximization. [1] You stop to tie your shoelaces and someone will subtly hint your contributions to the company are in marked decline this quarter. etc
- tjradcliffe 12y ago
  > as males we won't ever have to make quite the same decision that the author made Millions of men--gay and straight--all over the world take care of their children by themselves, and face exactly the same choices the author does. So why anyone would ever suggest that men don't face these choices or have to make these decisions is entirely unclear. Men are parents too. Many men are single parents. Many married men are as or more involved in care-giving than their partner. We are in a minority, but times change. Fifteen or twenty years ago I was frequently the only man at the pool or the park with small children. Today I'm gratified to see lots of young men--often heavily tattooed and looking like they'd happily go a few rounds with a grizzly bear for fun--out with their wee ones. One day we might even imagine a world were everyone doesn't assume that simply because I'm a man I don't know how to change a diaper or cook a nutritious meal or comfort a crying child. Men are enormously short-changed by this attitude that somehow we aren't and can't ever be the primary care-giver for our children. It diminishes us and limits our choices and pushes our lives into narrow, sterile, avenues.
  - HorizonXP 12y ago
    I forgot about this perspective, and I'm glad you described, since it does resonate with me. However, the fact is, we do not have the anatomy required to actually bear children. Everything you identified is certainly true, but there are definitely certain aspects to child bearing that are uniquely female in nature. Those are things that I can do my best to understand, but that's difficult being a male. The parent comment to yours is certainly correct: a pregnant female is in a different position than a male parent. There are certainly parallels and similarities, but some things are unique to a mother.
kvanderd 12y ago
"But it's scary to me to think that women feel the need to make these types of sacrifices, and not take care of their family." Hmmmm ... the United States does not offer paid maternity leave. So if you needed the money, and weren't a CEO, you would have to go back to work anyway. She is making a choice, but for many other women the choice has been made for them. The US is the only developed country without laws providing paid maternity leave.
- jordanthoms 12y ago
  The United States doesn't _require_ companies offer paid maternity leave (at least at a federal level, some states do). That's not the same thing at all as not having maternity leave. Personally I think this is something which can be dealt with most effectively in employment negotiations, with perhaps some regulation at the state level.
  - aklemm 12y ago
    Employment negotiations with a union, right? Hard to see how a clerk or factory worker would have enough leverage to get a fair shake.
- HorizonXP 12y ago
  And to me, that's barbaric. We're punishing women for following every animal's instinct to procreate. Men don't get equivalently "punished" when they have a child, women have to shoulder that burden. As a society, we need women to bear children. Why do we force her to choose between work and family? In Canada, we provide 17-52 weeks of maternity leave for new mothers, depending on a few factors. Moreover, we allow for 15 weeks of paid leave for pregnant employees or new mothers, with another 35 weeks of 55% paid parental leave. [1] In the US, up to 12 weeks of leave is allowed, but there are conditions and exemptions, one of which is that if you're a company of less than 50 employees, you don't have to allow leave. From [1]: "If a mother has to rush back to work after giving birth because she cannot afford the lack of a paycheck, she may not be as effective at her job compared to if she was rested and had her family life settled." I would rather have a kickass employee, male or female, be happy to come back to work after their home and family has settled. If we hire in the US, I'd like to provide equivalent benefits to them as if they were in Canada. Hopefully I can make that happen, but that's an issue for future me to deal with since it's a long ways out. [1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/career-advice/maternity-leave-basics-canada-vs-the-us/article4197679/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/ca...
simonebrunozzi 12y ago
Very well said. I am in a very similar position, although at least a few months apart, if not more. Just out of curiosity: where you will build your company, and what will the company do?
- HorizonXP 12y ago
  We're building the company in Toronto and SF Bay Area, and we're building an operating system for commercial buildings.
yummyfajitas 12y ago
By virtue of circumstance, I will never understand what a mother has to deal with in these circumstances... "By virtue of circumstances, I will never understand what a comet is like." <- said no one ever after we landed a robot on one. This attitude is anti-intellectualism. It denies the ability to gain understanding about the world by gathering information and reasoning. It's a bit scary that anti-intellectualism has become almost a social necessity when discussing many important topics. If intellectualism were permitted, I wonder what we might learn?
- HorizonXP 12y ago
  I was just trying to say that I have a penis, and because I don't have a vagina, I cannot bear children and experience the physical and emotional roller coaster that entails. Of course I can do my best to gain understanding about it. That's why my wife is my life partner. She'll definitely do her best to make me "understand" it. :-)
maaku 12y ago
Just FYI, being home around the first few months isn't that important. If I were doing it over again, I'd take the first few weeks off to help my wife, then a longer month or so when the baby is a little older (3-9mo). Really the baby is barely conscious of its surroundings for the first 3 months. Humans have a 12 month gestational period, it's just they get pushed out 3 months early because otherwise our big heads wouldn't fit...
- prawn 12y ago
  Exactly, and this is not something many first time parents would realise. Early on, your child is still developing sight so your opportunities to interact with them (besides nuzzling, helping your partner, etc) are quite limited. Your baby will be sleeping or feeding at the breast of your partner. You will be able to help out with nappy changes or bottle feeding from expressed milk, but other than that, your leave might be better saved for later months (or even years) when they can make out your expressions or grasp objects at least.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

727374 12y ago

Agree that the read was horrifying based on my family's experience, but we should try to reserve judgement because as males we won't ever have to make quite the same decision that the author made. I doubt the author "feels her company is more valuable than her child". I think more likely she just wound up in an impossible situation. Also, keep in mind that people can't always perfectly time when a pregnancy will begin/end.

akiselev 12y ago
In addition, if she is a good CEO she probably feels responsible for her employee's well being. They're not her children nor are they helpless infants, but it is another responsibility that each person values differently in her position.
Mz 12y ago
FWIW, I am a woman and I was a full time mom for many years. Here is my comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8732852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8732852
- 001sky 12y ago
  This comment touches on an important issue. Hypercompetition at work[1], in other words, leads to local, not globsl maximization. [1] You stop to tie your shoelaces and someone will subtly hint your contributions to the company are in marked decline this quarter. etc
tjradcliffe 12y ago
> as males we won't ever have to make quite the same decision that the author made Millions of men--gay and straight--all over the world take care of their children by themselves, and face exactly the same choices the author does. So why anyone would ever suggest that men don't face these choices or have to make these decisions is entirely unclear. Men are parents too. Many men are single parents. Many married men are as or more involved in care-giving than their partner. We are in a minority, but times change. Fifteen or twenty years ago I was frequently the only man at the pool or the park with small children. Today I'm gratified to see lots of young men--often heavily tattooed and looking like they'd happily go a few rounds with a grizzly bear for fun--out with their wee ones. One day we might even imagine a world were everyone doesn't assume that simply because I'm a man I don't know how to change a diaper or cook a nutritious meal or comfort a crying child. Men are enormously short-changed by this attitude that somehow we aren't and can't ever be the primary care-giver for our children. It diminishes us and limits our choices and pushes our lives into narrow, sterile, avenues.
- HorizonXP 12y ago
  I forgot about this perspective, and I'm glad you described, since it does resonate with me. However, the fact is, we do not have the anatomy required to actually bear children. Everything you identified is certainly true, but there are definitely certain aspects to child bearing that are uniquely female in nature. Those are things that I can do my best to understand, but that's difficult being a male. The parent comment to yours is certainly correct: a pregnant female is in a different position than a male parent. There are certainly parallels and similarities, but some things are unique to a mother.

kvanderd 12y ago

"But it's scary to me to think that women feel the need to make these types of sacrifices, and not take care of their family." Hmmmm ... the United States does not offer paid maternity leave. So if you needed the money, and weren't a CEO, you would have to go back to work anyway. She is making a choice, but for many other women the choice has been made for them. The US is the only developed country without laws providing paid maternity leave.

jordanthoms 12y ago
The United States doesn't _require_ companies offer paid maternity leave (at least at a federal level, some states do). That's not the same thing at all as not having maternity leave. Personally I think this is something which can be dealt with most effectively in employment negotiations, with perhaps some regulation at the state level.
- aklemm 12y ago
  Employment negotiations with a union, right? Hard to see how a clerk or factory worker would have enough leverage to get a fair shake.
HorizonXP 12y ago
And to me, that's barbaric. We're punishing women for following every animal's instinct to procreate. Men don't get equivalently "punished" when they have a child, women have to shoulder that burden. As a society, we need women to bear children. Why do we force her to choose between work and family? In Canada, we provide 17-52 weeks of maternity leave for new mothers, depending on a few factors. Moreover, we allow for 15 weeks of paid leave for pregnant employees or new mothers, with another 35 weeks of 55% paid parental leave. [1] In the US, up to 12 weeks of leave is allowed, but there are conditions and exemptions, one of which is that if you're a company of less than 50 employees, you don't have to allow leave. From [1]: "If a mother has to rush back to work after giving birth because she cannot afford the lack of a paycheck, she may not be as effective at her job compared to if she was rested and had her family life settled." I would rather have a kickass employee, male or female, be happy to come back to work after their home and family has settled. If we hire in the US, I'd like to provide equivalent benefits to them as if they were in Canada. Hopefully I can make that happen, but that's an issue for future me to deal with since it's a long ways out. [1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/career-advice/maternity-leave-basics-canada-vs-the-us/article4197679/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/ca...

simonebrunozzi 12y ago

Very well said. I am in a very similar position, although at least a few months apart, if not more. Just out of curiosity: where you will build your company, and what will the company do?

HorizonXP 12y ago
We're building the company in Toronto and SF Bay Area, and we're building an operating system for commercial buildings.

yummyfajitas 12y ago

By virtue of circumstance, I will never understand what a mother has to deal with in these circumstances... "By virtue of circumstances, I will never understand what a comet is like." <- said no one ever after we landed a robot on one. This attitude is anti-intellectualism. It denies the ability to gain understanding about the world by gathering information and reasoning. It's a bit scary that anti-intellectualism has become almost a social necessity when discussing many important topics. If intellectualism were permitted, I wonder what we might learn?

HorizonXP 12y ago
I was just trying to say that I have a penis, and because I don't have a vagina, I cannot bear children and experience the physical and emotional roller coaster that entails. Of course I can do my best to gain understanding about it. That's why my wife is my life partner. She'll definitely do her best to make me "understand" it. :-)

maaku 12y ago

Just FYI, being home around the first few months isn't that important. If I were doing it over again, I'd take the first few weeks off to help my wife, then a longer month or so when the baby is a little older (3-9mo). Really the baby is barely conscious of its surroundings for the first 3 months. Humans have a 12 month gestational period, it's just they get pushed out 3 months early because otherwise our big heads wouldn't fit...

prawn 12y ago
Exactly, and this is not something many first time parents would realise. Early on, your child is still developing sight so your opportunities to interact with them (besides nuzzling, helping your partner, etc) are quite limited. Your baby will be sleeping or feeding at the breast of your partner. You will be able to help out with nappy changes or bottle feeding from expressed milk, but other than that, your leave might be better saved for later months (or even years) when they can make out your expressions or grasp objects at least.