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Lol. Yes the answer is no. I realized too late that salaries in the computer industry follow the "reverse hockey stick". Even badly trained programmers do prett

by ascotan 12y ago

Lol. Yes the answer is no. I realized too late that salaries in the computer industry follow the "reverse hockey stick". Even badly trained programmers do pretty well and if you spend those early years before you get married with kids collecting a good salary you'll be in a better position then the guy that spent 7 years racking up student loan debt to get a phd. Now if you love research - go for it. Otherwise get a job early and make money. Frankly there are a lot of fun things to do in CS without the need fora phd. Honestly spending time fishing for money to do research is probably a lot less fun then spending your time at a start up or just working.

jamesaguilar 12y ago
You paid to get your PhD? I thought that was pretty uncommon?
- akiselev 12y ago
  You usually get paid a stipend in the STEM fields, but it's probably well below minimum wage (we're talking the equivalent of $3-5/hour) with such a huge time commitment that earning money on the side is practically impossible. If you live in a city with a higher than average cost of living or you're just starting a family or have health problems (that university insurance can be pretty crappy as you transition from your parents' plan) you can very easily be forced to get student loans... Which you often can't discharge through bankruptcy even if not strictly used for tuition AFAIK. I'm not sure about the humanities but with the disproportionate amount of funding focused on STEM (relative to number of graduate students) I wouldnt be surprised if some people did have to pay to get their PhD.
  - t__r 12y ago
    In Europe you get a salary for a PhD. It's not a lot but in most countries (especially western Europe) it's actually quite OK.
    - reuven 12y ago
      My PhD stipend (at Northwestern, a major private US university) was about $1200/month. That's enough for a single, unmarried, childless person who is sharing an apartment with one or more roommates. It was laughably low for someone like me, married with three children. Health care alone in the US was about $1200/month for my family. Rent was another $1200/month or so. Food cost us a few hundred a month. Not surprisingly, I ended up doing lots of consulting work during the PhD, something that I had to keep hidden from the program. My wife's earning potential was quite low, so this was the most economical way to do it, if not the most relaxing. An OK salary is very much relative to the person receiving it, as well as the city in which you are living. We were in Chicago, which is far less expensive than Boston or San Francisco. I can't imagine what we would have done there.
      - collyw 12y ago
        Of course, we should be paying more for people who have wife and kids. Forget meritocracy.
        reuven 12y ago
        I'm actually not of the opinion that the stipend should be higher for married couples with children -- just that someone in that situation should understand that the PhD student's spouse will need to have a good, full-time job to cover expenses during the period of study. I do think that it was immoral for the PhD program to charge a fortune for my wife and children to get health insurance, but that is a reflection of the US health-insurance system as much as anything else. And things might well have changed since I was living in Chicago.
- dluan 12y ago
  Everyone pays somehow.
- giaour 12y ago
  PhD students almost always get a full tuition scholarship and a stipend around ~$25K. If PhD students had to pay their own way, there probably wouldn't be any.
  - nhayden 12y ago
    Stipend probably depends a lot on the area of study. For the ones I've heard about (a lot) it's universally around $12k a year USD.
gambiting 12y ago
Debt for a PhD? I work as a junior programmer and all of my friends who went to do their PhDs make a lot more money than I do(almost 10k pounds more/year). I actively considered quitting my job to become a PhD student purely because it pays so much better.
- iak8god 12y ago
  > (almost 10k pounds more/year) It's completely different in the US, where PhD stipends are a mere fraction (1/4 - 1/3 in my experience) of the median income.
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  It's not clear, are you saying they earnt more whilst doing their PhD than you were earning as a junior programmer? Also, can you give examples of what positions they moved from/to that demanded PhD's rather than direct experience (I'm not suggesting there aren't such roles, I'm just asking)? Thanks.
  - gambiting 12y ago
    They earn more while doing their PhD. They earn 27-28k(GBP) a year while I make 18k a year. All of their PhDs are in Computer Science+Statistics so from I hear they have very high chance of being hired afterwards(one of them got hired by Google already, 80k/pa + relocation to US).
    - TheCoelacanth 12y ago
      By US standards, that is an unbelievably low salary for a junior programmer and an above average PhD stipend. I doubt you would find many programmers here whose incomes would increase while they were doing a PhD. They would be much more likely to take a substantial pay cut.
      - gambiting 12y ago
        Well, I do work in the games industry. So on one hand I work on the biggest AAA titles that are currently in development, and it's absolutely awesome, I do what I always wanted to do, but then on the other hand, I am being paid so little it's laughable. I am not joking when I said that I have honestly considered leaving this job and doing a PhD, because it would pay more.

by ascotan 12y ago

jamesaguilar 12y ago

You paid to get your PhD? I thought that was pretty uncommon?

akiselev 12y ago
You usually get paid a stipend in the STEM fields, but it's probably well below minimum wage (we're talking the equivalent of $3-5/hour) with such a huge time commitment that earning money on the side is practically impossible. If you live in a city with a higher than average cost of living or you're just starting a family or have health problems (that university insurance can be pretty crappy as you transition from your parents' plan) you can very easily be forced to get student loans... Which you often can't discharge through bankruptcy even if not strictly used for tuition AFAIK. I'm not sure about the humanities but with the disproportionate amount of funding focused on STEM (relative to number of graduate students) I wouldnt be surprised if some people did have to pay to get their PhD.
- t__r 12y ago
  In Europe you get a salary for a PhD. It's not a lot but in most countries (especially western Europe) it's actually quite OK.
  - reuven 12y ago
    My PhD stipend (at Northwestern, a major private US university) was about $1200/month. That's enough for a single, unmarried, childless person who is sharing an apartment with one or more roommates. It was laughably low for someone like me, married with three children. Health care alone in the US was about $1200/month for my family. Rent was another $1200/month or so. Food cost us a few hundred a month. Not surprisingly, I ended up doing lots of consulting work during the PhD, something that I had to keep hidden from the program. My wife's earning potential was quite low, so this was the most economical way to do it, if not the most relaxing. An OK salary is very much relative to the person receiving it, as well as the city in which you are living. We were in Chicago, which is far less expensive than Boston or San Francisco. I can't imagine what we would have done there.
    - collyw 12y ago
      Of course, we should be paying more for people who have wife and kids. Forget meritocracy.
      - reuven 12y ago
        I'm actually not of the opinion that the stipend should be higher for married couples with children -- just that someone in that situation should understand that the PhD student's spouse will need to have a good, full-time job to cover expenses during the period of study. I do think that it was immoral for the PhD program to charge a fortune for my wife and children to get health insurance, but that is a reflection of the US health-insurance system as much as anything else. And things might well have changed since I was living in Chicago.
dluan 12y ago
Everyone pays somehow.
giaour 12y ago
PhD students almost always get a full tuition scholarship and a stipend around ~$25K. If PhD students had to pay their own way, there probably wouldn't be any.
- nhayden 12y ago
  Stipend probably depends a lot on the area of study. For the ones I've heard about (a lot) it's universally around $12k a year USD.

gambiting 12y ago

Debt for a PhD? I work as a junior programmer and all of my friends who went to do their PhDs make a lot more money than I do(almost 10k pounds more/year). I actively considered quitting my job to become a PhD student purely because it pays so much better.

iak8god 12y ago
> (almost 10k pounds more/year) It's completely different in the US, where PhD stipends are a mere fraction (1/4 - 1/3 in my experience) of the median income.
pbhjpbhj 12y ago
It's not clear, are you saying they earnt more whilst doing their PhD than you were earning as a junior programmer? Also, can you give examples of what positions they moved from/to that demanded PhD's rather than direct experience (I'm not suggesting there aren't such roles, I'm just asking)? Thanks.
- gambiting 12y ago
  They earn more while doing their PhD. They earn 27-28k(GBP) a year while I make 18k a year. All of their PhDs are in Computer Science+Statistics so from I hear they have very high chance of being hired afterwards(one of them got hired by Google already, 80k/pa + relocation to US).
  - TheCoelacanth 12y ago
    By US standards, that is an unbelievably low salary for a junior programmer and an above average PhD stipend. I doubt you would find many programmers here whose incomes would increase while they were doing a PhD. They would be much more likely to take a substantial pay cut.
    - gambiting 12y ago
      Well, I do work in the games industry. So on one hand I work on the biggest AAA titles that are currently in development, and it's absolutely awesome, I do what I always wanted to do, but then on the other hand, I am being paid so little it's laughable. I am not joking when I said that I have honestly considered leaving this job and doing a PhD, because it would pay more.