12 ms·

MIT indefinitely removes online physics lectures and courses by Walter Lewin

144 points by clarkm 12y ago

sweettea 12y ago
This is a real travesty. While sexual harassment deserves suspension from future teaching, the existence of Lewin's (highly regarded and instructive) lectures in no wise endorses or encourages sexual harassment, and their loss is truly detrimental.
- Jun8 12y ago
  I totally agreed with you until I read the article which states that he engaged in sexual harassment through MITx.
  - kasabali 12y ago
    How does it justify removing his video lectures from OpenCourseWare?
    - _delirium 12y ago
      The only sentence in the press release specifically about the decision to remove the lectures, afaict, is this one: > Following broad consultation among faculty, MIT is indefinitely removing Lewin’s online courses, in the interest of preventing any further inappropriate behavior. It sounds like they're worried that just having courses up (even if not offered) might encourage future interaction between students using the material and the person listed as instructor (e.g. by email), which they don't want to provide as an avenue. They do have an archive of past courses [1], so one in-between option might've been to remove them from the current MITx site and stick them in the archive. But it's possible they were worried that would be insufficient. (It's also possible I don't understand how MITx courses are organized, and what the archive is for.) [1] http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/33970 http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/33970
      - username223 12y ago
        > It sounds like they're worried that just having courses up (even if not offered) might encourage future interaction between students using the material and the person listed as instructor (e.g. by email) Another interpretation is that other current or future faculty could get ideas about sexually harassing online students. "... preventing any further inappropriate behavior..." sounds like they're worried about other current or future faculty being pervs, and want to nuke him from orbit.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      OCW is MIT's privately owned platform, nobody is guaranteed a spot on it if MIT considers that it could damage the institutional brand.
  - maaku 12y ago
    So? Remove Walter Lewin from MITx. Don't punish former and current students (I am one) by removing that absolutely amazing resource that is the Lewin Physics video lectures. Walter Lewin's course took me from failing physics to loving the field so much that I switched my major from comp sci to physics. I am disgusted that MIT chose to respond in this way. An institution of learning should know better than to do the digital equivalent of a book burning.
- sadfaceunread 12y ago
  This is exactly my opinion as well. We don't remove books from the library because the author had moral failings, or even if the author committed genocide. The content has value and should be preserved. The removal of the content from OCW is the step too far. Lewin absolutely should be restricted from further teaching at MIT or on MITx but the work itself should not be considered problematic.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    It's weird. I'm all for punishing sexual harassment, but I just don't see how removing his content from OCW does anything but punish society. It's not like static material is suddenly going to start harassing people. As you say, they wouldn't remove an author's books in this case. How are course notes and videos any different? Poor decision, in my opinion.
    - Steuard 12y ago
      I've talked about this at greater length in another comment, but removing OCW content strikes me as a serious blow to any professor's legacy. For someone who invested years into that project, that's one heck of a punishment; it's one of the harshest things I can think of that MIT could do to a retired professor.
  - xienze 12y ago
    They're probably worried about being perceived as supporting the professor by having his lectures online. It's silly, but that's the world we live in. There are people who will absolutely lose their minds over the thought of this guy's lectures being online after a sexual harassment claim.
  - gmu3 12y ago
    Actually a lot of Nazi research such as Pernkopf Anatomy is removed from the library/institutions on ethical grounds.
    - defen 12y ago
- Steuard 12y ago
  I agree that the loss of quality teaching materials to the public is an unfortunate result of this. But I can see at least three ways in which this may have been a very reasonable decision. First, as others have pointed out, the linked statement suggests (without providing details) that MIT was concerned that Lewin would continue a pattern of using his connection with their online courses to harass students. Without being privy to their investigation we don't know what all led to that ongoing concern, but it's plausible to assume they have reasons. Second, it may be that MIT's policy in these cases is to formally cut all ties with the harasser, or something to that effect. This might be the online equivalent of insisting that a disgraced emeritus professor give up their office on campus. There are clearly downsides to the community for such a policy, but there are indisputable benefits as well. And finally, it strikes me that MIT has very little leverage to punish a retired professor who damages the university's reputation and community in this way. But this action of taking down a big part of his life's work is a way of hitting him right in his legacy. I know that were I in his shoes, I would be devastated by such a decision. I hope it has a strong deterrent effect on any other faculty who might be prone to similar abuses of their positions.
  - cousin_it 12y ago
    > But this action of taking down a big part of his life's work is a way of hitting him right in his legacy. This is something I really didn't need to read on the internet today. Hitting a physicist right in his legacy. I'll just turn off my computer now, I'm seeing red, can't write a reasonable response to that.
    - Steuard 12y ago
      Just for context, I'm a physics professor myself. And the thing that gets me seeing red, entirely too often, is watching my brilliant female students drift away from the field where they have the potential to contribute so much. Not for any specific or well defined reason, just because they don't really feel comfortable there. It always looks perfectly reasonable on a case by case basis, but there's an unmistakable pattern in the whole. Math and the other sciences don't suffer from this as much these days: folks drift away there, too, but the gender disparity isn't as great. Among the natural sciences, it's just physics that sticks out.[0] So yeah, right in his legacy. I'm actually pretty happy to see punishments with teeth for guys whose actions perpetuate the situation. [0] To the extent that computer science is a math/science subject, it's worth noting that CS has plummeted down to near-physics levels of gender disparity in recent years. I think it's very likely that similar cultural issues are at work.
- wavegeek 12y ago
  It is a real shame because his lectures were terrific.
FD3SA 12y ago
This is absurd. Ignoring the ever loosening definition of sexual harassment combined with its increasingly retroactive application, what does the man's academic work have to do with these allegations? Do the excellent lectures he's put online to help millions of students suddenly become illegal material, akin to child pornography? I find it ironic how the new "politically correct" legions behave increasingly like a subversive fascist movement. "Incorrect" thoughts and opinions become illegal taboos, and alleged "criminals" are assumed guilty without trial. The irony resulting from the escapades of these so called "social justice warriors" would be comical, if the results weren't so tragic. Walter Lewin's lectures are an incredible resource for the entire world. Taking them down because of alleged misconduct is the height of absurdity. MIT is harming millions of students worldwide who don't have access to any other resources. The time has come to stop these modern witch trials, and return to a sane legal process. Particularly, innocence until proven guilty.
- limaoscarjuliet 12y ago
  Yes, idiocy. It likely has more to do with fear of liability rather than political correctness thoguh. I imagine some future student going through "emotional distress" reading works by a "predator" and suing the MIT for millions.
- roywiggins 12y ago
  > Particularly, innocence until proven guilty. This is how courts work. This is not how humans work. Are you suggesting that no action can be taken against anyone by anyone for any reason until a court proves the charge? That's nuts. I am allowed to conclude that someone is guilty or not in my own estimation. Unless I'm a juror it has no force of law, but I can assume someone's guilty without trial NO PROBLEM. Obama's guilty of suppressing evidence of torture. Bush's cronies are guilty of torture. Neither will be tried for any crime. How exactly is my opinion a problem? Should I wait for a court to validate it, or what? Courts can be completely, hilariously, 100% in the wrong. Plessy v Ferguson. Citizens United (arguably, anyway). As a person, I have freedom of association. If I think someone's a rapey asshole because someone came to me with an accusation, it is -well- within my rights to sever ties. Likewise, OpenCourseWare has no particular obligation to host this guy's stuff. Nobody is stopping him hosting it himself if it's so useful, or CC licensing it, or handing it to Archive.org. MIT isn't stifling anyone. There is no persecution here. I say this as someone who 1) probably wouldn't want to watch his lectures due to this but 2) think they should still be available for people who would find them useful. It's too bad MIT decided to take it down. But they're big boys and can make the decision on their own.
lsiebert 12y ago
"She provided information about Lewin’s interactions with her, which began when she was a learner in one of his MITx courses, as well as information about interactions between Lewin and other women online learners." So it wasn't an isolated incident. "Based on its investigation, MIT has determined that Lewin’s behavior toward the complainant violated the Institute’s policy on sexual harassment. Following broad consultation among faculty, MIT is indefinitely removing Lewin’s online courses, in the interest of preventing any further inappropriate behavior." There was an investigation, run by the head of the Physics department, and they determined sexual harassment happened through MIT online materials. The faculty of the department were consulted, and it was decided to remove his material, to prevent any future issues. He used his online content to prey upon female students. They removed that content. I mean what was the alternative for MIT? Not tell anyone? Leave it up, with a warning that you shouldn't contact the professor because he has harassed women in the past? Call me old-fashioned, but I think when people abuse their positions of power and authority in order to victimize others, the institutions SHOULD cut ties with those individuals. As far as I know, nothing prevents Lewin, or others, from hosting the videos of his lectures elsewhere. But MIT is right to disassociate from somebody they have determined to have behaved inappropriately.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  "He used his online content to prey upon female students." That's not what that statement says, and indeed it's sort of strange to think that's a plausible occurrence. His lecture and notes didn't do any harassing. He did, through interaction on the online platform. That's not the same thing.
  - jacalata 12y ago
    Are you sure? There were no comments in the videos, or the notes, for instance?
    - waterlesscloud 12y ago
      In a wide range of videos and notes that have been online for years? Seriously doubtful.
ilamont 12y ago
Lewin was a superstar in online education circles, and very highly regarded at MIT. The NYT, among others, covered this: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/education/19physics.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/education/19physics.html?_...
DaveSapien 12y ago
This is going to turn around and bight them in the ass...
thejdeep 12y ago
Absurd. Don't think there is a need to remove his lectures ,which benefit the many in the student fraternity, from the edX or MIT OCW.
pakled_engineer 12y ago
Time to site rip and create an OCW torrent in case other materials and lectures disappear.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
byerley 12y ago
I sure hope the Feynman lectures from Caltech aren't next. People seem really quick to forget that fundamental science endures and political correctness is fleeting. I wonder what the next world threatening catastrophe to make people remember will be.
- wavegeek 12y ago
  And we don't know what he was accused of and how serious it was, how strong the evidence was, and how fair the process was that condemned him. Certainly there are plenty of cases of universities making terrible decisions in this space eg men being expelled for sexual assault, followed by conviction of the complainant for making a false report. Levin seemed to be very popular with his female students; on one of the courses some of them actually came in at the end and sang him a song of appreciation.
  - Steuard 12y ago
    I continue to be amazed at the degree to which "no actual harassment happened" is the strong default belief for so many people here, despite the fact that a thorough investigation has already happened and decided otherwise. A group of smart people (led by MIT physics professors who are friends of the accused, for goodness sake) looked at the evidence and concluded that serious harassment occurred. Doesn't that merit at least a bit of a Bayesian update? I'm similarly amazed that the existence of examples of false accusations is taken as a more salient fact than the overwhelming weight and history of cultural indifference toward sexual harassment (or even approval). False accusations are the "man bites dog" story: they get attention because they're so far from the norm.
    - anatoly 12y ago
      Consider that these people updated, you just don't share their conditional probabilities. In particular, they might think that P(response by MIT as given|harassment nonexistent or relatively trivial) is fairly high, given their understanding of or experience with the academic climate in the recent years, internal politics in academia, standards of institutional ass-covering etc. It's also notable (given that sexual harassment is a crime) that no involvement by authorities is described or even hinted at. You do make a good point. "no harassment happened" shouldn't be the strong default belief (I'm not sure it actually is for many people here). But based on the statement and what is known about the relevant politics in academia, "serious harassment definitely occurred" shouldn't be one either.
grayclhn 12y ago
Just want to point out to anyone upset that his lectures and notes have been taken offline: MIT's OCW is typically CC-BY-NC. Anyone is free to share their backup copy of the lectures online as a replacement.
dmunoz 12y ago
Removing his lectures seems a bit extreme. It's their content, though. They do only mention "MIT OpenCourseWare and online MITx courses" though, so hopefully the lectures will stay up on YouTube. They really are excellent lectures. That said, I've watched a good portion of Ramamurti Shankar's lectures from Open Yale courses [0]. They're pretty good, but perhaps not broken down as logically as the three courses of Lewin's. There is also some really good lectures from Leonard Susskind's The Theoretical Minimum [1]. However, these are perhaps a step beyond the normal undergraduate lecture series. [0] http://oyc.yale.edu/physics http://oyc.yale.edu/physics [1] http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses
Rolpa 12y ago
Steve Jobs was an irrefutable dick. So tell me, should we throw all Macintoshes and iPhones into an incinerator?
- prawn 12y ago
  Was he using them as a particular channel to harass people?
  - gravity13 12y ago
    Steve Jobs touched my sister's boob.
    - Curmudgel 12y ago
      What? In what context?
    - general_failure 12y ago
      So he married your siter?
NamTaf 12y ago
I understand why they did what they did, but it's a real shame because he was a fantastic teacher and the material on both OCW and edX was incredibly valuable. I took two of his courses on edX and both were among the best of the 10 or so courses I've done on there. I hope another copy of them pops up. It'd be great for them not to be lost from public availability without MIT having to support it. edit: Of course, I don't think I ever archived a copy of these edX courses (it was difficult to) but I'll check when I get home.
RodericDay 12y ago
I think everyone understands the frustration with taking down these notes on 'hurting so many to get to him?' grounds but do any of you see the opposite viewpoint? that's the one that barely anyone in this HN thread is discussing? that MIT is basically saying to any profs "you play around with this and you're done"? I feel like it's extremely encouraging to women, and may very well outweigh the marginal benefits of yet another physics lecture set online, particularly since they can easily be reinstated after the punishment and political message sinks in. all of this stuff about the sanctity of information rings really hollow in a forum full of cynics anyway. and the skepticism about the accusations is just the cherry on top.
- blt 12y ago
  I agree with you. So many seem willing to give this guy a pass based on the quality of his lectures. I think that's bullshit. We need to get rid of the notion that genius academic output forgives sexual harassment. Fuck that. Genius academic output forgives bad dinner party hosting skills or walking around the office in an 8-day-old t-shirt, not harassing women. However good this guy might be at teaching physics, this "loss" to the community cannot begin to approach the loss of uncountable women who decided to avoid quantitative fields because of the male culture dominance. Meanwhile, as we discussed a few days ago, image processing researchers continue to use the studio-lit, soft focus, 1970s slide film captured, limited color gamut, badly scanned, low resolution 'Lena' image as if it is even a tiny bit relevant for today's image processing applications. I'm sure there are many fun and engaging physics teachers at universities big and small across the world who can lecture equally well and don't harass women online. One of them can step up.
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    The 'Lena' thing always seems to me like 'mountain out of a molehill'. Sure, there's something there, but of all the things you could worry about... Honestly it seems to me like its persistence tells us rather little. Benchmarks have always had long lives by nature- just look at dhrystone, which has declined tremendously in relevance, but is still run plenty often today. I'm not saying it is an appropriate image. Rather, at this point its continued use could easily be thanks simply to inertia rather than crushing sexism. However, I don't work in image processing so I can't say for sure.
gamesbrainiac 12y ago
Why does MIT have to remove the video content? Lewin's lectures are one of the best sources to learn physics. Period.
- gravity13 12y ago
  This is true. I actually cite his physics lectures as part of the reason why I got into the online learning tech industry. Walter Lewin's been a bit of a hero to me.
- henrikgs 12y ago
  Anyone seen both Lewin and Susskind[0] got any thoughts on the differences? I was thinking about starting on one of these. http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses/classical-mechanics/2011/fall http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses/classical-mechanics/20...
  - anatoly 12y ago
    Susskind is much more advanced. Realistically speaking you need to understand and internalize the content of Lewin (or comparable) before you take on Susskind. Lewin = undergraduate-level physics Susskind = graduate-level physics, converted to minimize math and maximize accessible explanations, but still graduate-level physics.
  - gamesbrainiac 12y ago
    I would agree with anatoly. Susskind is an amazing teacher, but sometimes its a bit tough for undergrads. I would highly recommend his Quantum mechanics lectures [0] too, which are very interesting. [0] https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=189C0DCE90CB6D81 https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=189C0DCE90CB6D81
Mithrandir 12y ago
MIT uploaded 8.01, 8.02, and 8.03 (as well as other courses) to the Internet Archive awhile ago. 8.01: https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 8.02: https://archive.org/details/MIT8.02S02 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.02S02 8.03: https://archive.org/details/MIT8.03F04 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.03F04 Edit: I don't know if all the problem sets are up there.
- galilyou498 12y ago
  Thanks mate.
- vixen99 12y ago
  Excellent! Thank you. Cuts across the problems alluded to for those who want to hear the lectures whatever (it is their decision).
galilyou498 12y ago
I don't know how I feel about this. I mean sexual harassment is just ugly and disgusting, but I did like Lewin. Science is heartless, MIT. So why take those valuable courses offline?
paulmcb 12y ago
Right when I needed to study for my Physics E&M Final...
paulmcb 12y ago
More like Walter Lewinsky...
jwr 12y ago
I've been going through these courses slowly. This is a punishment for me, too, as their sudden removal means I can no longer continue. I think MIT could have left the lecture videos online, prefixing them with a notice, which would have amounted to the same thing (disassociating from Walter Lewin and punishment for him), except that countless people that used those videos would not be punished. I do hope there is a torrent with the archived Electricity&Magnetism lectures.
jcrawfordor 12y ago
I think a lot of people who are upset about them removing his lectures probably misunderstand how OCW is being viewed by universities. From the perspective of MIT, these OCW materials are not videos and materials to be preserved for future generations, they're a product of the university. We're not talking about stripping his materials off the shelves of a library. We're talking about taking them off the shelves of a store. And MIT, as a brand, has no intent to sell products (for charge or not) which are associated with sexual harassment. This is even more important in the higher education space than in other industries because of the fact that the instructor is very much part of the product - it is an expectation of academic materials that the author can be contacted with inquiries about them. The choice here for MIT, I think, is not about burning books. It's about continuing to present Lewin as one of their products. And when he's been found to have harassed women, it's obvious that they cannot do so.
venomsnake 12y ago
Sack the guy, prevent him from teaching. Leave the courses online. Having and excellent resource and not using it is stupid.
ps4fanboy 12y ago
This feels like a digital book burning.
lectrick 12y ago
He's being punished for irresponsible behavior, fair enough. But the one good he did in the world is now being taken away to the detriment of many. Think of it this way- Right now you can find books in the library written by people who have committed genocides. If we were to ban all the good (or at least of academic value) works of people who also did some very bad things, we'd have to burn A LOT of media, and arguably to the detriment of us all. Cutting off the nose to spite the face... He should have been punished somehow, but not in this way. Anyway, I'm sure his lectures will be torrentable, if they're that good.
- new299 12y ago
  I believe the OpenCourseWare materials were made available under a permissive license. And the lectures are available on archive.org e.g. https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 I can understand MITs decision to remove the materials from OpenCourseWare, OpenCourseWare is not a library. Removing his materials from there distances themselves from him, and his actions. They have however allowed them to be made available elsewhere.
  - lectrick 12y ago
    That seems reasonably fair, then, all things considered. Found a positive article on him. Seems like a really cool prof, those are hard to find, sigh http://www.technologyreview.com/article/426949/the-professor-who-brings-physics-to-life/ http://www.technologyreview.com/article/426949/the-professor... What bothers me is that we're entering a world where most of the things that are considered "real" live online, so this is a rather large hit to the legacy of this guy, looking back on this day from the future.
kercker 12y ago
This resembles the practices of universities in China, that when a famous alumnus is accused of corruption, all that remind people of his existence in the campus are removed.
wbhart 12y ago
The lectures themselves were a fantastic resource. I had been watching them in order, and was about half way through his 801 physics course. They are extremely entertaining and very well presented. He even addresses the issue of sexism at a few points in the lectures, and is clearly extremely popular with his students. It's a shame he overstepped boundaries in another way, leading to the removal of a really seriously good resource. On the other hand, one can understand MIT's point of view, given the facts. It would be very wrong of them not to remove his online course and allow the platform to continue to be misused in this way. I hope that Lewin or a colleague will release a statement, since at the moment there is such an enormous scope in the possibilities regarding the accusations. It could cover anything from otherwise polite, oblique references to students' appearances in a photo, to something overtly sexual and predatory. All kinds of sexual harassment are wrong and unwarranted, but some kinds are much more serious.
jabelk 12y ago
This is a reasonable thing for MIT to do. Many comparisons to book burning have been made in various comments, which is not a good analogy. In this situation, the analogue to book burning would be burning his books[1]. MIT is just declining to have their name on the cover of his books (read: lectures) any more. MIT is not trying to decree that the guy has some egregious objective moral failing. They're saying that they ran an internal investigation, with the help of other physics faculty, and found Lewin to be in violation of their institutional sexual harassment policies, and as a result, they're removing his content from their platform. This is a perfectly good reason to distance themselves from him, as well as making it clear that they take sexual harassment very seriously by impacting his legacy so negatively. MIT OCW continues to host courses for 8.01 and 8.02, the courses his lectures covered, with lectures given by other faculty[2]. The loss of material to learn from is marginal at best - these videos are for the same courses at the same school with much of the same infrastructure (notes/recitation videos/etc). [1] http://www.amazon.com/For-Love-Physics-Rainbow-Journey/dp/1439108277/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0 http://www.amazon.com/For-Love-Physics-Rainbow-Journey/dp/14... [2] http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-fall-2003/ http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-fall-2003/
reuven 12y ago
Wow, this is a tough one. When I was an undergrad at MIT in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Walter Lewin was synonymous with amazing physics teaching. We would watch his videos on MIT's internal cable TV channel, to better understand (or just to understand) our physics homework. I wasn't surprised to find that Lewin became an online teaching star, and that he was repeatedly praised for his instructional videos. Indeed, just a few days ago, I showed some of his videos to my 13-year-old daughter, who is showing some interest in physics. So the videos are good and useful, and nothing changes the fact that Lewin is an exceptional teacher. At the same time, it looks like MIT has investigated these charges of sexual harassment, and that there is truth to them. True, without hearing more details, we have to rely upon their judgment, which is frustrating. But the press release tries to make it clear that the investigation was handled by multiple people, including faculty members, and that it wasn't a one-time occurrence. So I'm willing to believe, and be profoundly disappointed, as I accept the fact that Lewin engaged in sexual harassment. Such behavior is unacceptable, and I'm glad that MIT wants to stop it. However, I wonder whether removing high-quality courses from the Internet is the right way to do that. I assume that they removed the videos so as to remove any reputational damage that Lewin's actions might cause to MIT. But there is also some educational damage here, and many people will suffer as a result. There is no good or right answer here. I think that MIT is trying to do the right thing, but I'm not sure if their actions were, on balance, the right thing to do. I do hope that their actions will make it clear to other faculty members that they simply cannot behave this way, though.
- hga 12y ago
  The "First Commandment" of MIT is to not embarrass the Institute, so, yeah, a concern of reputational damage is certainly at the forefront here. The problem, of course, is that this digital book burning is also causing reputational damage to the Institute, and I would guess quite a bit more. That professors are human is hardly a revelation. That the world's top engineering university would engage in such an overreaction, cutting off students in the middle of study (even if copies are available elsewhere, many will not learn of them, and there's disruption and chaos in the meantime), putting its online teaching efforts into jeopardy ... that's really big.
davelnewton 12y ago
It's good they took immediate and decisive action. Aren't the courses pre-recorded/-written/-etc. materials?
kendallpark 12y ago
Wow. I'm really sad to hear this. His online courses got me through E&M back in college.
purplescarf 12y ago
I'm really anxious about this ambiguity of the "sexual harassment". This guy seems have no way to defend himself if in one of millionth chance that he is innocent. People need information and actual cases to define the boundary. Just "common sense" is not enough. The way that MIT handles the information of investigation is really scary to me. I know that smart guy does stupid things. However, a power that can punish people without going through court or public, isn't it scary? Basically, an investigation conducted by a bunch of people behind the door does not hold more credits than an individual. Anybody has the same feeling?

144 points by clarkm 12y ago

This is a real travesty. While sexual harassment deserves suspension from future teaching, the existence of Lewin's (highly regarded and instructive) lectures in no wise endorses or encourages sexual harassment, and their loss is truly detrimental.

Jun8 12y ago
I totally agreed with you until I read the article which states that he engaged in sexual harassment through MITx.
- kasabali 12y ago
  How does it justify removing his video lectures from OpenCourseWare?
  - _delirium 12y ago
    The only sentence in the press release specifically about the decision to remove the lectures, afaict, is this one: > Following broad consultation among faculty, MIT is indefinitely removing Lewin’s online courses, in the interest of preventing any further inappropriate behavior. It sounds like they're worried that just having courses up (even if not offered) might encourage future interaction between students using the material and the person listed as instructor (e.g. by email), which they don't want to provide as an avenue. They do have an archive of past courses [1], so one in-between option might've been to remove them from the current MITx site and stick them in the archive. But it's possible they were worried that would be insufficient. (It's also possible I don't understand how MITx courses are organized, and what the archive is for.) [1] http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/33970 http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/33970
    - username223 12y ago
      > It sounds like they're worried that just having courses up (even if not offered) might encourage future interaction between students using the material and the person listed as instructor (e.g. by email) Another interpretation is that other current or future faculty could get ideas about sexually harassing online students. "... preventing any further inappropriate behavior..." sounds like they're worried about other current or future faculty being pervs, and want to nuke him from orbit.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    OCW is MIT's privately owned platform, nobody is guaranteed a spot on it if MIT considers that it could damage the institutional brand.
- maaku 12y ago
  So? Remove Walter Lewin from MITx. Don't punish former and current students (I am one) by removing that absolutely amazing resource that is the Lewin Physics video lectures. Walter Lewin's course took me from failing physics to loving the field so much that I switched my major from comp sci to physics. I am disgusted that MIT chose to respond in this way. An institution of learning should know better than to do the digital equivalent of a book burning.
sadfaceunread 12y ago
This is exactly my opinion as well. We don't remove books from the library because the author had moral failings, or even if the author committed genocide. The content has value and should be preserved. The removal of the content from OCW is the step too far. Lewin absolutely should be restricted from further teaching at MIT or on MITx but the work itself should not be considered problematic.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  It's weird. I'm all for punishing sexual harassment, but I just don't see how removing his content from OCW does anything but punish society. It's not like static material is suddenly going to start harassing people. As you say, they wouldn't remove an author's books in this case. How are course notes and videos any different? Poor decision, in my opinion.
  - Steuard 12y ago
    I've talked about this at greater length in another comment, but removing OCW content strikes me as a serious blow to any professor's legacy. For someone who invested years into that project, that's one heck of a punishment; it's one of the harshest things I can think of that MIT could do to a retired professor.
- xienze 12y ago
  They're probably worried about being perceived as supporting the professor by having his lectures online. It's silly, but that's the world we live in. There are people who will absolutely lose their minds over the thought of this guy's lectures being online after a sexual harassment claim.
- gmu3 12y ago
  Actually a lot of Nazi research such as Pernkopf Anatomy is removed from the library/institutions on ethical grounds.
  - defen 12y ago
Steuard 12y ago
I agree that the loss of quality teaching materials to the public is an unfortunate result of this. But I can see at least three ways in which this may have been a very reasonable decision. First, as others have pointed out, the linked statement suggests (without providing details) that MIT was concerned that Lewin would continue a pattern of using his connection with their online courses to harass students. Without being privy to their investigation we don't know what all led to that ongoing concern, but it's plausible to assume they have reasons. Second, it may be that MIT's policy in these cases is to formally cut all ties with the harasser, or something to that effect. This might be the online equivalent of insisting that a disgraced emeritus professor give up their office on campus. There are clearly downsides to the community for such a policy, but there are indisputable benefits as well. And finally, it strikes me that MIT has very little leverage to punish a retired professor who damages the university's reputation and community in this way. But this action of taking down a big part of his life's work is a way of hitting him right in his legacy. I know that were I in his shoes, I would be devastated by such a decision. I hope it has a strong deterrent effect on any other faculty who might be prone to similar abuses of their positions.
- cousin_it 12y ago
  > But this action of taking down a big part of his life's work is a way of hitting him right in his legacy. This is something I really didn't need to read on the internet today. Hitting a physicist right in his legacy. I'll just turn off my computer now, I'm seeing red, can't write a reasonable response to that.
  - Steuard 12y ago
    Just for context, I'm a physics professor myself. And the thing that gets me seeing red, entirely too often, is watching my brilliant female students drift away from the field where they have the potential to contribute so much. Not for any specific or well defined reason, just because they don't really feel comfortable there. It always looks perfectly reasonable on a case by case basis, but there's an unmistakable pattern in the whole. Math and the other sciences don't suffer from this as much these days: folks drift away there, too, but the gender disparity isn't as great. Among the natural sciences, it's just physics that sticks out.[0] So yeah, right in his legacy. I'm actually pretty happy to see punishments with teeth for guys whose actions perpetuate the situation. [0] To the extent that computer science is a math/science subject, it's worth noting that CS has plummeted down to near-physics levels of gender disparity in recent years. I think it's very likely that similar cultural issues are at work.
wavegeek 12y ago
It is a real shame because his lectures were terrific.

FD3SA 12y ago

This is absurd. Ignoring the ever loosening definition of sexual harassment combined with its increasingly retroactive application, what does the man's academic work have to do with these allegations? Do the excellent lectures he's put online to help millions of students suddenly become illegal material, akin to child pornography? I find it ironic how the new "politically correct" legions behave increasingly like a subversive fascist movement. "Incorrect" thoughts and opinions become illegal taboos, and alleged "criminals" are assumed guilty without trial. The irony resulting from the escapades of these so called "social justice warriors" would be comical, if the results weren't so tragic. Walter Lewin's lectures are an incredible resource for the entire world. Taking them down because of alleged misconduct is the height of absurdity. MIT is harming millions of students worldwide who don't have access to any other resources. The time has come to stop these modern witch trials, and return to a sane legal process. Particularly, innocence until proven guilty.

limaoscarjuliet 12y ago
Yes, idiocy. It likely has more to do with fear of liability rather than political correctness thoguh. I imagine some future student going through "emotional distress" reading works by a "predator" and suing the MIT for millions.
roywiggins 12y ago
> Particularly, innocence until proven guilty. This is how courts work. This is not how humans work. Are you suggesting that no action can be taken against anyone by anyone for any reason until a court proves the charge? That's nuts. I am allowed to conclude that someone is guilty or not in my own estimation. Unless I'm a juror it has no force of law, but I can assume someone's guilty without trial NO PROBLEM. Obama's guilty of suppressing evidence of torture. Bush's cronies are guilty of torture. Neither will be tried for any crime. How exactly is my opinion a problem? Should I wait for a court to validate it, or what? Courts can be completely, hilariously, 100% in the wrong. Plessy v Ferguson. Citizens United (arguably, anyway). As a person, I have freedom of association. If I think someone's a rapey asshole because someone came to me with an accusation, it is -well- within my rights to sever ties. Likewise, OpenCourseWare has no particular obligation to host this guy's stuff. Nobody is stopping him hosting it himself if it's so useful, or CC licensing it, or handing it to Archive.org. MIT isn't stifling anyone. There is no persecution here. I say this as someone who 1) probably wouldn't want to watch his lectures due to this but 2) think they should still be available for people who would find them useful. It's too bad MIT decided to take it down. But they're big boys and can make the decision on their own.

lsiebert 12y ago

"She provided information about Lewin’s interactions with her, which began when she was a learner in one of his MITx courses, as well as information about interactions between Lewin and other women online learners." So it wasn't an isolated incident. "Based on its investigation, MIT has determined that Lewin’s behavior toward the complainant violated the Institute’s policy on sexual harassment. Following broad consultation among faculty, MIT is indefinitely removing Lewin’s online courses, in the interest of preventing any further inappropriate behavior." There was an investigation, run by the head of the Physics department, and they determined sexual harassment happened through MIT online materials. The faculty of the department were consulted, and it was decided to remove his material, to prevent any future issues. He used his online content to prey upon female students. They removed that content. I mean what was the alternative for MIT? Not tell anyone? Leave it up, with a warning that you shouldn't contact the professor because he has harassed women in the past? Call me old-fashioned, but I think when people abuse their positions of power and authority in order to victimize others, the institutions SHOULD cut ties with those individuals. As far as I know, nothing prevents Lewin, or others, from hosting the videos of his lectures elsewhere. But MIT is right to disassociate from somebody they have determined to have behaved inappropriately.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
"He used his online content to prey upon female students." That's not what that statement says, and indeed it's sort of strange to think that's a plausible occurrence. His lecture and notes didn't do any harassing. He did, through interaction on the online platform. That's not the same thing.
- jacalata 12y ago
  Are you sure? There were no comments in the videos, or the notes, for instance?
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    In a wide range of videos and notes that have been online for years? Seriously doubtful.

ilamont 12y ago

Lewin was a superstar in online education circles, and very highly regarded at MIT. The NYT, among others, covered this: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/education/19physics.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/education/19physics.html?_...

DaveSapien 12y ago

This is going to turn around and bight them in the ass...

thejdeep 12y ago

Absurd. Don't think there is a need to remove his lectures ,which benefit the many in the student fraternity, from the edX or MIT OCW.

pakled_engineer 12y ago

Time to site rip and create an OCW torrent in case other materials and lectures disappear.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

byerley 12y ago

I sure hope the Feynman lectures from Caltech aren't next. People seem really quick to forget that fundamental science endures and political correctness is fleeting. I wonder what the next world threatening catastrophe to make people remember will be.

wavegeek 12y ago
And we don't know what he was accused of and how serious it was, how strong the evidence was, and how fair the process was that condemned him. Certainly there are plenty of cases of universities making terrible decisions in this space eg men being expelled for sexual assault, followed by conviction of the complainant for making a false report. Levin seemed to be very popular with his female students; on one of the courses some of them actually came in at the end and sang him a song of appreciation.
- Steuard 12y ago
  I continue to be amazed at the degree to which "no actual harassment happened" is the strong default belief for so many people here, despite the fact that a thorough investigation has already happened and decided otherwise. A group of smart people (led by MIT physics professors who are friends of the accused, for goodness sake) looked at the evidence and concluded that serious harassment occurred. Doesn't that merit at least a bit of a Bayesian update? I'm similarly amazed that the existence of examples of false accusations is taken as a more salient fact than the overwhelming weight and history of cultural indifference toward sexual harassment (or even approval). False accusations are the "man bites dog" story: they get attention because they're so far from the norm.
  - anatoly 12y ago
    Consider that these people updated, you just don't share their conditional probabilities. In particular, they might think that P(response by MIT as given|harassment nonexistent or relatively trivial) is fairly high, given their understanding of or experience with the academic climate in the recent years, internal politics in academia, standards of institutional ass-covering etc. It's also notable (given that sexual harassment is a crime) that no involvement by authorities is described or even hinted at. You do make a good point. "no harassment happened" shouldn't be the strong default belief (I'm not sure it actually is for many people here). But based on the statement and what is known about the relevant politics in academia, "serious harassment definitely occurred" shouldn't be one either.

grayclhn 12y ago

Just want to point out to anyone upset that his lectures and notes have been taken offline: MIT's OCW is typically CC-BY-NC. Anyone is free to share their backup copy of the lectures online as a replacement.

dmunoz 12y ago

Removing his lectures seems a bit extreme. It's their content, though. They do only mention "MIT OpenCourseWare and online MITx courses" though, so hopefully the lectures will stay up on YouTube. They really are excellent lectures. That said, I've watched a good portion of Ramamurti Shankar's lectures from Open Yale courses [0]. They're pretty good, but perhaps not broken down as logically as the three courses of Lewin's. There is also some really good lectures from Leonard Susskind's The Theoretical Minimum [1]. However, these are perhaps a step beyond the normal undergraduate lecture series. [0] http://oyc.yale.edu/physics http://oyc.yale.edu/physics [1] http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses

Rolpa 12y ago

Steve Jobs was an irrefutable dick. So tell me, should we throw all Macintoshes and iPhones into an incinerator?

prawn 12y ago
Was he using them as a particular channel to harass people?
- gravity13 12y ago
  Steve Jobs touched my sister's boob.
  - Curmudgel 12y ago
    What? In what context?
  - general_failure 12y ago
    So he married your siter?

NamTaf 12y ago

I understand why they did what they did, but it's a real shame because he was a fantastic teacher and the material on both OCW and edX was incredibly valuable. I took two of his courses on edX and both were among the best of the 10 or so courses I've done on there. I hope another copy of them pops up. It'd be great for them not to be lost from public availability without MIT having to support it. edit: Of course, I don't think I ever archived a copy of these edX courses (it was difficult to) but I'll check when I get home.

RodericDay 12y ago

I think everyone understands the frustration with taking down these notes on 'hurting so many to get to him?' grounds but do any of you see the opposite viewpoint? that's the one that barely anyone in this HN thread is discussing? that MIT is basically saying to any profs "you play around with this and you're done"? I feel like it's extremely encouraging to women, and may very well outweigh the marginal benefits of yet another physics lecture set online, particularly since they can easily be reinstated after the punishment and political message sinks in. all of this stuff about the sanctity of information rings really hollow in a forum full of cynics anyway. and the skepticism about the accusations is just the cherry on top.

blt 12y ago
I agree with you. So many seem willing to give this guy a pass based on the quality of his lectures. I think that's bullshit. We need to get rid of the notion that genius academic output forgives sexual harassment. Fuck that. Genius academic output forgives bad dinner party hosting skills or walking around the office in an 8-day-old t-shirt, not harassing women. However good this guy might be at teaching physics, this "loss" to the community cannot begin to approach the loss of uncountable women who decided to avoid quantitative fields because of the male culture dominance. Meanwhile, as we discussed a few days ago, image processing researchers continue to use the studio-lit, soft focus, 1970s slide film captured, limited color gamut, badly scanned, low resolution 'Lena' image as if it is even a tiny bit relevant for today's image processing applications. I'm sure there are many fun and engaging physics teachers at universities big and small across the world who can lecture equally well and don't harass women online. One of them can step up.
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  The 'Lena' thing always seems to me like 'mountain out of a molehill'. Sure, there's something there, but of all the things you could worry about... Honestly it seems to me like its persistence tells us rather little. Benchmarks have always had long lives by nature- just look at dhrystone, which has declined tremendously in relevance, but is still run plenty often today. I'm not saying it is an appropriate image. Rather, at this point its continued use could easily be thanks simply to inertia rather than crushing sexism. However, I don't work in image processing so I can't say for sure.

gamesbrainiac 12y ago

Why does MIT have to remove the video content? Lewin's lectures are one of the best sources to learn physics. Period.

gravity13 12y ago
This is true. I actually cite his physics lectures as part of the reason why I got into the online learning tech industry. Walter Lewin's been a bit of a hero to me.
henrikgs 12y ago
Anyone seen both Lewin and Susskind[0] got any thoughts on the differences? I was thinking about starting on one of these. http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses/classical-mechanics/2011/fall http://theoreticalminimum.com/courses/classical-mechanics/20...
- anatoly 12y ago
  Susskind is much more advanced. Realistically speaking you need to understand and internalize the content of Lewin (or comparable) before you take on Susskind. Lewin = undergraduate-level physics Susskind = graduate-level physics, converted to minimize math and maximize accessible explanations, but still graduate-level physics.
- gamesbrainiac 12y ago
  I would agree with anatoly. Susskind is an amazing teacher, but sometimes its a bit tough for undergrads. I would highly recommend his Quantum mechanics lectures [0] too, which are very interesting. [0] https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=189C0DCE90CB6D81 https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=189C0DCE90CB6D81

Mithrandir 12y ago

MIT uploaded 8.01, 8.02, and 8.03 (as well as other courses) to the Internet Archive awhile ago. 8.01: https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 8.02: https://archive.org/details/MIT8.02S02 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.02S02 8.03: https://archive.org/details/MIT8.03F04 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.03F04 Edit: I don't know if all the problem sets are up there.

galilyou498 12y ago
Thanks mate.
vixen99 12y ago
Excellent! Thank you. Cuts across the problems alluded to for those who want to hear the lectures whatever (it is their decision).

galilyou498 12y ago

I don't know how I feel about this. I mean sexual harassment is just ugly and disgusting, but I did like Lewin. Science is heartless, MIT. So why take those valuable courses offline?

paulmcb 12y ago

Right when I needed to study for my Physics E&M Final...

paulmcb 12y ago

More like Walter Lewinsky...

jwr 12y ago

I've been going through these courses slowly. This is a punishment for me, too, as their sudden removal means I can no longer continue. I think MIT could have left the lecture videos online, prefixing them with a notice, which would have amounted to the same thing (disassociating from Walter Lewin and punishment for him), except that countless people that used those videos would not be punished. I do hope there is a torrent with the archived Electricity&Magnetism lectures.

jcrawfordor 12y ago

I think a lot of people who are upset about them removing his lectures probably misunderstand how OCW is being viewed by universities. From the perspective of MIT, these OCW materials are not videos and materials to be preserved for future generations, they're a product of the university. We're not talking about stripping his materials off the shelves of a library. We're talking about taking them off the shelves of a store. And MIT, as a brand, has no intent to sell products (for charge or not) which are associated with sexual harassment. This is even more important in the higher education space than in other industries because of the fact that the instructor is very much part of the product - it is an expectation of academic materials that the author can be contacted with inquiries about them. The choice here for MIT, I think, is not about burning books. It's about continuing to present Lewin as one of their products. And when he's been found to have harassed women, it's obvious that they cannot do so.

venomsnake 12y ago

Sack the guy, prevent him from teaching. Leave the courses online. Having and excellent resource and not using it is stupid.

ps4fanboy 12y ago

This feels like a digital book burning.

lectrick 12y ago

He's being punished for irresponsible behavior, fair enough. But the one good he did in the world is now being taken away to the detriment of many. Think of it this way- Right now you can find books in the library written by people who have committed genocides. If we were to ban all the good (or at least of academic value) works of people who also did some very bad things, we'd have to burn A LOT of media, and arguably to the detriment of us all. Cutting off the nose to spite the face... He should have been punished somehow, but not in this way. Anyway, I'm sure his lectures will be torrentable, if they're that good.

new299 12y ago
I believe the OpenCourseWare materials were made available under a permissive license. And the lectures are available on archive.org e.g. https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 https://archive.org/details/MIT8.01F99 I can understand MITs decision to remove the materials from OpenCourseWare, OpenCourseWare is not a library. Removing his materials from there distances themselves from him, and his actions. They have however allowed them to be made available elsewhere.
- lectrick 12y ago
  That seems reasonably fair, then, all things considered. Found a positive article on him. Seems like a really cool prof, those are hard to find, sigh http://www.technologyreview.com/article/426949/the-professor-who-brings-physics-to-life/ http://www.technologyreview.com/article/426949/the-professor... What bothers me is that we're entering a world where most of the things that are considered "real" live online, so this is a rather large hit to the legacy of this guy, looking back on this day from the future.

kercker 12y ago

This resembles the practices of universities in China, that when a famous alumnus is accused of corruption, all that remind people of his existence in the campus are removed.

wbhart 12y ago

The lectures themselves were a fantastic resource. I had been watching them in order, and was about half way through his 801 physics course. They are extremely entertaining and very well presented. He even addresses the issue of sexism at a few points in the lectures, and is clearly extremely popular with his students. It's a shame he overstepped boundaries in another way, leading to the removal of a really seriously good resource. On the other hand, one can understand MIT's point of view, given the facts. It would be very wrong of them not to remove his online course and allow the platform to continue to be misused in this way. I hope that Lewin or a colleague will release a statement, since at the moment there is such an enormous scope in the possibilities regarding the accusations. It could cover anything from otherwise polite, oblique references to students' appearances in a photo, to something overtly sexual and predatory. All kinds of sexual harassment are wrong and unwarranted, but some kinds are much more serious.

jabelk 12y ago

This is a reasonable thing for MIT to do. Many comparisons to book burning have been made in various comments, which is not a good analogy. In this situation, the analogue to book burning would be burning his books[1]. MIT is just declining to have their name on the cover of his books (read: lectures) any more. MIT is not trying to decree that the guy has some egregious objective moral failing. They're saying that they ran an internal investigation, with the help of other physics faculty, and found Lewin to be in violation of their institutional sexual harassment policies, and as a result, they're removing his content from their platform. This is a perfectly good reason to distance themselves from him, as well as making it clear that they take sexual harassment very seriously by impacting his legacy so negatively. MIT OCW continues to host courses for 8.01 and 8.02, the courses his lectures covered, with lectures given by other faculty[2]. The loss of material to learn from is marginal at best - these videos are for the same courses at the same school with much of the same infrastructure (notes/recitation videos/etc). [1] http://www.amazon.com/For-Love-Physics-Rainbow-Journey/dp/1439108277/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0 http://www.amazon.com/For-Love-Physics-Rainbow-Journey/dp/14... [2] http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-fall-2003/ http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-01-physics-i-fall-2003/

reuven 12y ago

Wow, this is a tough one. When I was an undergrad at MIT in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Walter Lewin was synonymous with amazing physics teaching. We would watch his videos on MIT's internal cable TV channel, to better understand (or just to understand) our physics homework. I wasn't surprised to find that Lewin became an online teaching star, and that he was repeatedly praised for his instructional videos. Indeed, just a few days ago, I showed some of his videos to my 13-year-old daughter, who is showing some interest in physics. So the videos are good and useful, and nothing changes the fact that Lewin is an exceptional teacher. At the same time, it looks like MIT has investigated these charges of sexual harassment, and that there is truth to them. True, without hearing more details, we have to rely upon their judgment, which is frustrating. But the press release tries to make it clear that the investigation was handled by multiple people, including faculty members, and that it wasn't a one-time occurrence. So I'm willing to believe, and be profoundly disappointed, as I accept the fact that Lewin engaged in sexual harassment. Such behavior is unacceptable, and I'm glad that MIT wants to stop it. However, I wonder whether removing high-quality courses from the Internet is the right way to do that. I assume that they removed the videos so as to remove any reputational damage that Lewin's actions might cause to MIT. But there is also some educational damage here, and many people will suffer as a result. There is no good or right answer here. I think that MIT is trying to do the right thing, but I'm not sure if their actions were, on balance, the right thing to do. I do hope that their actions will make it clear to other faculty members that they simply cannot behave this way, though.

hga 12y ago
The "First Commandment" of MIT is to not embarrass the Institute, so, yeah, a concern of reputational damage is certainly at the forefront here. The problem, of course, is that this digital book burning is also causing reputational damage to the Institute, and I would guess quite a bit more. That professors are human is hardly a revelation. That the world's top engineering university would engage in such an overreaction, cutting off students in the middle of study (even if copies are available elsewhere, many will not learn of them, and there's disruption and chaos in the meantime), putting its online teaching efforts into jeopardy ... that's really big.

davelnewton 12y ago

It's good they took immediate and decisive action. Aren't the courses pre-recorded/-written/-etc. materials?

kendallpark 12y ago

Wow. I'm really sad to hear this. His online courses got me through E&M back in college.

purplescarf 12y ago

I'm really anxious about this ambiguity of the "sexual harassment". This guy seems have no way to defend himself if in one of millionth chance that he is innocent. People need information and actual cases to define the boundary. Just "common sense" is not enough. The way that MIT handles the information of investigation is really scary to me. I know that smart guy does stupid things. However, a power that can punish people without going through court or public, isn't it scary? Basically, an investigation conducted by a bunch of people behind the door does not hold more credits than an individual. Anybody has the same feeling?