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Programming language specialisation is completely overrated. Job listings should probably rather read "Looking for software developer" than "Looking for Rails/P

by scrrr 12y ago

Programming language specialisation is completely overrated. Job listings should probably rather read "Looking for software developer" than "Looking for Rails/Python/Clojure/whatever-developer" A good/experienced developer will pick up any language quickly.

astrobe_ 12y ago
Quickly? Perhaps. But being productive is a whole different story. You may pick Scheme or Forth in maybe half a day; but being productive with them implies knowing their common idioms, their standard libraries by heart and their ecosystem well. That's the meaning of the "Looking for ..." job offers.
volker48 12y ago
This is true, but certain languages are better at tackling certain problems e.g. I wouldn't recommend trying to write a multi-threaded application in PHP. I could build a house by hammering in all the nails with the back of a screw driver, but why would I want to do that?
- scrrr 12y ago
  yeah I just meant that good devs can use any language, not that any language is good for any problem. It obviously isn't. :)
lostcolony 12y ago
To a point. I've noticed in functional language jobs the specific language is less meaningful. While it may be Clojure, it will often have a requirement of "experience in functional languages" rather than explicitly Clojure. I think that's a combination of fewer developers to choose from, smaller companies (so a technical person reviewing it rather than HR), and the recognition that the major difficulty to getting productive is that first paradigm shift, after which it's evolutionary rather than revolutionary.
EliRivers 12y ago
How quickly is "quickly"? I've been coding in C++ for years and I still find new ways of doing things and new idioms to consider.
- marcosdumay 12y ago
  Do at least K&R not feel this way? That discussion above does not really apply to C++. But then, if you lower the bar to how much C++ is widely known (the intersection, not union), it'll apply.
  - BugsBunnySan 12y ago
    On the one hand, R (http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html) is sadly gone. However, this might be interesting to your question: From http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/duffs-device.html http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/duffs-device.html: "Somewhere I have a note from dmr [the R in K&R] certifying that all the compilers that he believes in accept it." So at least at some point Duff showed Ritchie something in C that Ritchie hadn't seen or considered before, long after C had been invented.
danieldk 12y ago
A good/experienced developer will pick up any language quickly... ...within the same paradigm. Give a good/experienced developer of imperative languages Prolog or a pure functional language, and it may take a few months to get productive. Also within the same paradigm, there is a difference between learning the syntax superficially and knowing all common idioms, patterns, and libraries.
- collyw 12y ago
  that's maybe where the "experienced" part comes into his description. Would you rather have a ten years of Java guy or a three years of Java, 5 years or Python, and three years of JavaScript. (Ok all of those are imperative, but Python and JavaScript also have a functional element to them).

by scrrr 12y ago

astrobe_ 12y ago

Quickly? Perhaps. But being productive is a whole different story. You may pick Scheme or Forth in maybe half a day; but being productive with them implies knowing their common idioms, their standard libraries by heart and their ecosystem well. That's the meaning of the "Looking for ..." job offers.

volker48 12y ago

This is true, but certain languages are better at tackling certain problems e.g. I wouldn't recommend trying to write a multi-threaded application in PHP. I could build a house by hammering in all the nails with the back of a screw driver, but why would I want to do that?

scrrr 12y ago
yeah I just meant that good devs can use any language, not that any language is good for any problem. It obviously isn't. :)

lostcolony 12y ago

To a point. I've noticed in functional language jobs the specific language is less meaningful. While it may be Clojure, it will often have a requirement of "experience in functional languages" rather than explicitly Clojure. I think that's a combination of fewer developers to choose from, smaller companies (so a technical person reviewing it rather than HR), and the recognition that the major difficulty to getting productive is that first paradigm shift, after which it's evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

EliRivers 12y ago

How quickly is "quickly"? I've been coding in C++ for years and I still find new ways of doing things and new idioms to consider.

marcosdumay 12y ago
Do at least K&R not feel this way? That discussion above does not really apply to C++. But then, if you lower the bar to how much C++ is widely known (the intersection, not union), it'll apply.
- BugsBunnySan 12y ago
  On the one hand, R (http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/index.html) is sadly gone. However, this might be interesting to your question: From http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/duffs-device.html http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/duffs-device.html: "Somewhere I have a note from dmr [the R in K&R] certifying that all the compilers that he believes in accept it." So at least at some point Duff showed Ritchie something in C that Ritchie hadn't seen or considered before, long after C had been invented.

danieldk 12y ago

A good/experienced developer will pick up any language quickly... ...within the same paradigm. Give a good/experienced developer of imperative languages Prolog or a pure functional language, and it may take a few months to get productive. Also within the same paradigm, there is a difference between learning the syntax superficially and knowing all common idioms, patterns, and libraries.

collyw 12y ago
that's maybe where the "experienced" part comes into his description. Would you rather have a ten years of Java guy or a three years of Java, 5 years or Python, and three years of JavaScript. (Ok all of those are imperative, but Python and JavaScript also have a functional element to them).