3 ms·

Aren't they poor because they've already made (some) bad economic decisions?

EdwardDiego 12y ago
Your statement implies that a child growing up in the favela can merely decide their way out of it.
jdotjdot 12y ago
Not at all. You can be born into poverty, or live in a place that is destitute of resources, so your ability to make good economic choices is severely limited. Especially of those born into poverty, whether in a rich country or poor, it's not like you're choosing where to be born.
- mistercow 12y ago
  > or live in a place that is destitute of resources Or worse: live in a place with lots of valuable resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
thirdsun 12y ago
There are certainly other ways to become or stay poor - being born and raised in poor environments, difficult family, bad education for starters.
- EdwardDiego 12y ago
  And you can start out fine and then become poor through circumstance. Illness is an obvious one. If you've got 1 year of savings, and are severely ill for 2 years, you're going to have a rough financial time. Even products like income protection insurance will eventually stop paying out for things like severe depression.
smtddr 12y ago
http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/09/poverty_and_cognitive_impairment_study_shows_money_troubles_make_decision.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/09/pove... Take from it what you will. One thing is for sure, it definitely can become an endless cycle once those 2 events(bad decision(s) and poverty) happen within a small time frame. For me personally, having a guilt-inducing high-salaried SF tech job gives me the peace of mind of not worrying about money; allowing me to read all kinds of articles/comments on topics like this, as well as financial & nutritional material - which I assume lead to better decisions for me & my family.
- ams6110 12y ago
  Why do you feel guilty about having a good job?
  - smtddr 12y ago
    That is a long story. But in short, I was just an average gamer/jpop/anime fan like all my college friends. We all fantasied about getting to Capcom & SquareSoft. A lot of them worked at places like Gamestop, from there a few ended up making connections to get into Namco and SONY as beta-testers. I wanted that too but my parents drilled it into my head that I must go to school first. I ended up getting a BSCS hoping it would help me get into beta-testing. From here, a series[1] of events happened that I don't necessarily believe I earned. I was just at the right place at the right time and it led me to the tech scene of the bay area. None of other college friends were able to stay in the gaming scene; layoffs took 'em out and they lost their connections to get back in. I run into them from time to time. They either work at a gas-station or unloading trucks for major grocery store chains. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8245217 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8245217 I didn't do anything amazing to get that job in at&t in 2001, stepping over way-more-qualified people who just got laid off in the dotcom meltdown, other than knowing the right guy at the right time. I didn't do anything special to get my 4 bedroom house other than the economy was giving away houses around 2003 and AT&T was a big enough name for them to give me a house. I had no business expecting Pixar to call me when they have a huge[2] stack of resumes touting superior trained digital artists and that Pixar event changed my whole life. I still have the email. That Pixar recruiter has no idea the energy & hope she sparked in me; how it's immensely benefited my family as a result. I thought if I could get Pixar to look at me, I could do anything. I refinanced my house to take all the equity out so I could pay for my soon-to-be wife's nursing school. A few months later, 2007 happened and everyone else lost their equity and/or house. I still had mine sitting in the bank. When it came time for a private school payment for the nursing program, it was going to be like 40k-50k or something, instead my wife somehow got into a public college program. Over 900 people apply and they only take 40. She got it. That ended up only costing like 6k. I have plenty of money left over, then some kind of law was passed and I was notified that I could refinance my underwater-interestOnly house loan. So now I pay less on my mortgage and it's a 30-year fixed paying principle+interest. At the end of the day, I just like computers & gaming like all my friends... but somehow I'm the only one with a crazy salary, a job I love, a house, etc. Money & opportunity just fall out of the sky for me. btw, this is why I play the lottery. I figure enough crazy things have happened in my life that I might actually win. 2. ">>It’s perhaps no wonder, then, that the interview process is harsh. With an estimated 45,000 applications received for each new position, only a chosen few make it." --- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10144531/Monsters-University-whats-it-like-to-work-at-Pixar.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10144531/Monsters-Un...
rhizome 12y ago
Nope, luck is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
Broken_Hippo 12y ago
Someone with parents working at a factory goes to school, gets a job at a fast food place while in college, dropped out to work more or maybe just couldn't find work afterwards and gets stuck in a cycle. Without money, things like a flat tire become disasters because now you have to choose between going to work and paying the gas bill to keep hot water on. It sucks living a year without hot water. Stuff happens. Flat tire could have been lost cash, doctor appointment, anything $20 or more. The bigger problem is that once you are down, regardless of whether it is your fault or not, it can be quite possible to get to a point that it becomes impossible to pull yourself out without some help. I kid you not, I've had buyers remorse over spending $.50 to avoid getting the store brand that I didn't like. There simply aren't many choices left at that point.
- autokad 12y ago
  growing up poor, its a series of bad habits that keep someone/a family down. i know people who are constantly in one disaster to the next, "my car broke down", "doctors appointment" etc etc. this is a common justification for "its not me, its being poor", but its because many people only plan ahead at best to the line. if something gets in the way, they dont make that line and blame what ever stopped them instead of changing the bad habit of planning up to the line. i had to yell at someone in my family just recently, they said 'I dont need that, i only need this much' and i exclaimed "you idiot, do you know the future? you dont know what you will need or what will happen. if something else comes up your f*.' another one is people simply JUST DO NOT MAKE CALCULATIONS. i cant tell you how many people have no idea in the world how much they spend on food, entertainment, transportation, etc on a monthly basis. even worse, how much all of their debts and moneys (cash, savings, retirement, etc) add up to, let alone what it was last year or the year before.
atmosx 12y ago
LOL, nice way of thinking! Problem solved then! Poor beggar kids in india are beggars because they made bad decisions, while rich indian boys in Harvard are in Harvard because they made good economic decisions!!! (Oh dear, oh dear..)

Your statement implies that a child growing up in the favela can merely decide their way out of it.

Not at all. You can be born into poverty, or live in a place that is destitute of resources, so your ability to make good economic choices is severely limited. Especially of those born into poverty, whether in a rich country or poor, it's not like you're choosing where to be born.

mistercow 12y ago
> or live in a place that is destitute of resources Or worse: live in a place with lots of valuable resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse

thirdsun 12y ago

There are certainly other ways to become or stay poor - being born and raised in poor environments, difficult family, bad education for starters.

EdwardDiego 12y ago
And you can start out fine and then become poor through circumstance. Illness is an obvious one. If you've got 1 year of savings, and are severely ill for 2 years, you're going to have a rough financial time. Even products like income protection insurance will eventually stop paying out for things like severe depression.

smtddr 12y ago

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/09/poverty_and_cognitive_impairment_study_shows_money_troubles_make_decision.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/09/pove... Take from it what you will. One thing is for sure, it definitely can become an endless cycle once those 2 events(bad decision(s) and poverty) happen within a small time frame. For me personally, having a guilt-inducing high-salaried SF tech job gives me the peace of mind of not worrying about money; allowing me to read all kinds of articles/comments on topics like this, as well as financial & nutritional material - which I assume lead to better decisions for me & my family.

ams6110 12y ago
Why do you feel guilty about having a good job?
- smtddr 12y ago
  That is a long story. But in short, I was just an average gamer/jpop/anime fan like all my college friends. We all fantasied about getting to Capcom & SquareSoft. A lot of them worked at places like Gamestop, from there a few ended up making connections to get into Namco and SONY as beta-testers. I wanted that too but my parents drilled it into my head that I must go to school first. I ended up getting a BSCS hoping it would help me get into beta-testing. From here, a series[1] of events happened that I don't necessarily believe I earned. I was just at the right place at the right time and it led me to the tech scene of the bay area. None of other college friends were able to stay in the gaming scene; layoffs took 'em out and they lost their connections to get back in. I run into them from time to time. They either work at a gas-station or unloading trucks for major grocery store chains. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8245217 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8245217 I didn't do anything amazing to get that job in at&t in 2001, stepping over way-more-qualified people who just got laid off in the dotcom meltdown, other than knowing the right guy at the right time. I didn't do anything special to get my 4 bedroom house other than the economy was giving away houses around 2003 and AT&T was a big enough name for them to give me a house. I had no business expecting Pixar to call me when they have a huge[2] stack of resumes touting superior trained digital artists and that Pixar event changed my whole life. I still have the email. That Pixar recruiter has no idea the energy & hope she sparked in me; how it's immensely benefited my family as a result. I thought if I could get Pixar to look at me, I could do anything. I refinanced my house to take all the equity out so I could pay for my soon-to-be wife's nursing school. A few months later, 2007 happened and everyone else lost their equity and/or house. I still had mine sitting in the bank. When it came time for a private school payment for the nursing program, it was going to be like 40k-50k or something, instead my wife somehow got into a public college program. Over 900 people apply and they only take 40. She got it. That ended up only costing like 6k. I have plenty of money left over, then some kind of law was passed and I was notified that I could refinance my underwater-interestOnly house loan. So now I pay less on my mortgage and it's a 30-year fixed paying principle+interest. At the end of the day, I just like computers & gaming like all my friends... but somehow I'm the only one with a crazy salary, a job I love, a house, etc. Money & opportunity just fall out of the sky for me. btw, this is why I play the lottery. I figure enough crazy things have happened in my life that I might actually win. 2. ">>It’s perhaps no wonder, then, that the interview process is harsh. With an estimated 45,000 applications received for each new position, only a chosen few make it." --- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10144531/Monsters-University-whats-it-like-to-work-at-Pixar.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/10144531/Monsters-Un...

rhizome 12y ago

Nope, luck is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

Broken_Hippo 12y ago

Someone with parents working at a factory goes to school, gets a job at a fast food place while in college, dropped out to work more or maybe just couldn't find work afterwards and gets stuck in a cycle. Without money, things like a flat tire become disasters because now you have to choose between going to work and paying the gas bill to keep hot water on. It sucks living a year without hot water. Stuff happens. Flat tire could have been lost cash, doctor appointment, anything $20 or more. The bigger problem is that once you are down, regardless of whether it is your fault or not, it can be quite possible to get to a point that it becomes impossible to pull yourself out without some help. I kid you not, I've had buyers remorse over spending $.50 to avoid getting the store brand that I didn't like. There simply aren't many choices left at that point.

autokad 12y ago
growing up poor, its a series of bad habits that keep someone/a family down. i know people who are constantly in one disaster to the next, "my car broke down", "doctors appointment" etc etc. this is a common justification for "its not me, its being poor", but its because many people only plan ahead at best to the line. if something gets in the way, they dont make that line and blame what ever stopped them instead of changing the bad habit of planning up to the line. i had to yell at someone in my family just recently, they said 'I dont need that, i only need this much' and i exclaimed "you idiot, do you know the future? you dont know what you will need or what will happen. if something else comes up your f*.' another one is people simply JUST DO NOT MAKE CALCULATIONS. i cant tell you how many people have no idea in the world how much they spend on food, entertainment, transportation, etc on a monthly basis. even worse, how much all of their debts and moneys (cash, savings, retirement, etc) add up to, let alone what it was last year or the year before.

atmosx 12y ago

LOL, nice way of thinking! Problem solved then! Poor beggar kids in india are beggars because they made bad decisions, while rich indian boys in Harvard are in Harvard because they made good economic decisions!!! (Oh dear, oh dear..)