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What this is really about, to me, is trust and its tendency toward self-fulfilling prophecy. This isn't about a major change in the philosophical concept of a b

What this is really about, to me, is trust and its tendency toward self-fulfilling prophecy. This isn't about a major change in the philosophical concept of a business. It's about CEOs no longer being trusted to make long-term decisions (and the culture of moronic short-termism trickles down to programmers dealing with "scrum" and "sprints" and shit.) When people are trusted, most will keep the self-dealing to a minimum in order to continually earn that trust. But once they sense that their organizations or managers don't trust them, it's just natural to conclude, "I don't care for them either" and maximize for short-term personal yield. At scale, this leads to macroscopic underperformance and everyone loses.

tormeh 12y ago
This applies to governments as well.
- toolz 12y ago
  When you put it that way I agree, but it makes me question if distrust is the disease or merely a symptom. Is the origin of so many of our political problems simply based in distrust?
  - tormeh 12y ago
    It's a positive feedback mechanism, but I think it can be kept under control. When it really goes to shit is when people are brought up with believing that being a total shit is just how bureaucracy/business/finance is done, then they get into those positions and they behave in the asshole way they believe is natural. Later it's on Fox News and the same kind of people there go "that's not wrong, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their place?". I think not being upset when politicians are corrupt is unacceptable behavior. I think it's both symptom and cause, basically.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
api 12y ago
I feel like there's been a general collapse in trust in at least America in the past 40 years. Short-term behavior is a logical individual response to that. I smell game theory.
- throwaway9931 12y ago
  Your feeling is correct, and numerous polls and studies quantify it.[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/30/poll-americans-dont-trust-one-another/3792179/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/30/poll-am...] [http://www.npr.org/2014/03/10/288712990/social-distrust-blooms-among-millennials-but-where-are-its-roots http://www.npr.org/2014/03/10/288712990/social-distrust-bloo...] Robert Putnam in Bowling Alone was just one of the people who explored this effect. Putative causes include potentially "de-socializing" technology like TV, increasing income inequality, emergence of suburban living, and fear-heavy media. The vastly increased level of racial and ethnic heterogeneity in America can not be ignored as a potential cause, either. Diversity may hinder social cohesion and a sense of community. [http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/publications/insight/democratic/robert-putnam http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/publications/insight/...] [https://www.msu.edu/~zpneal/publications/neal-diversitysoc.pdf https://www.msu.edu/~zpneal/publications/neal-diversitysoc.p...]
  - api 12y ago
    I personally feel like all the causes you list are secondary. Primary, at least for me, is abuse of trust and power. People seem to earn trust in our culture only so that it can be "spent" later in abusive ways. Our relationship with our political and business leadership is the classic "abuse, then make up, then abuse again" pattern seen in abusive family relationships, but writ large. Every event of large-scale deception -- or even incompetence that gives the appearance of deception -- has a huge negative effect on the overall level of trust in a society. It's sort of like the "bad neighborhood effect." If you experience one mugging, that location is forever a "bad neighborhood" even if 99.9% of its inhabitants are perfectly peaceful law abiding citizens. It takes one act of official misconduct to undo the goodwill of thousands of noble and responsible acts. I think the term is "elite deviancy" -- the condition in a society when that society's elite no longer believe the rules apply to them and no longer have any sense of shared pride or loyalty to the society at large. But these things have a way of being recursive-- it's possible that this elite deviancy is a response to growing alienation. This condition could also arise if our elite think they're on a sinking ship. I wonder sometimes about things like the Limits to Growth and what effect that had on the belief systems of those at the top. The timing matches pretty well-- it seems as if everything went to short-term hell shortly after 1970. "Get as much as you can and get out" is a rational strategy in a civilization one believes is dying. I wonder... did you make a throwaway because of the ethnic/race part of your response? I don't think you're wrong. People do tend to cooperate far more readily with people who look like them and have the same cultural values. It's something I find deeply depressing though... what are we, social insects? Can we only cooperate in homogeneous hives?

tormeh 12y ago

This applies to governments as well.

toolz 12y ago
When you put it that way I agree, but it makes me question if distrust is the disease or merely a symptom. Is the origin of so many of our political problems simply based in distrust?
- tormeh 12y ago
  It's a positive feedback mechanism, but I think it can be kept under control. When it really goes to shit is when people are brought up with believing that being a total shit is just how bureaucracy/business/finance is done, then they get into those positions and they behave in the asshole way they believe is natural. Later it's on Fox News and the same kind of people there go "that's not wrong, wouldn't you do the same if you were in their place?". I think not being upset when politicians are corrupt is unacceptable behavior. I think it's both symptom and cause, basically.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

api 12y ago

I feel like there's been a general collapse in trust in at least America in the past 40 years. Short-term behavior is a logical individual response to that. I smell game theory.

throwaway9931 12y ago
Your feeling is correct, and numerous polls and studies quantify it.[http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/30/poll-americans-dont-trust-one-another/3792179/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/30/poll-am...] [http://www.npr.org/2014/03/10/288712990/social-distrust-blooms-among-millennials-but-where-are-its-roots http://www.npr.org/2014/03/10/288712990/social-distrust-bloo...] Robert Putnam in Bowling Alone was just one of the people who explored this effect. Putative causes include potentially "de-socializing" technology like TV, increasing income inequality, emergence of suburban living, and fear-heavy media. The vastly increased level of racial and ethnic heterogeneity in America can not be ignored as a potential cause, either. Diversity may hinder social cohesion and a sense of community. [http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/publications/insight/democratic/robert-putnam http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/publications/insight/...] [https://www.msu.edu/~zpneal/publications/neal-diversitysoc.pdf https://www.msu.edu/~zpneal/publications/neal-diversitysoc.p...]
- api 12y ago
  I personally feel like all the causes you list are secondary. Primary, at least for me, is abuse of trust and power. People seem to earn trust in our culture only so that it can be "spent" later in abusive ways. Our relationship with our political and business leadership is the classic "abuse, then make up, then abuse again" pattern seen in abusive family relationships, but writ large. Every event of large-scale deception -- or even incompetence that gives the appearance of deception -- has a huge negative effect on the overall level of trust in a society. It's sort of like the "bad neighborhood effect." If you experience one mugging, that location is forever a "bad neighborhood" even if 99.9% of its inhabitants are perfectly peaceful law abiding citizens. It takes one act of official misconduct to undo the goodwill of thousands of noble and responsible acts. I think the term is "elite deviancy" -- the condition in a society when that society's elite no longer believe the rules apply to them and no longer have any sense of shared pride or loyalty to the society at large. But these things have a way of being recursive-- it's possible that this elite deviancy is a response to growing alienation. This condition could also arise if our elite think they're on a sinking ship. I wonder sometimes about things like the Limits to Growth and what effect that had on the belief systems of those at the top. The timing matches pretty well-- it seems as if everything went to short-term hell shortly after 1970. "Get as much as you can and get out" is a rational strategy in a civilization one believes is dying. I wonder... did you make a throwaway because of the ethnic/race part of your response? I don't think you're wrong. People do tend to cooperate far more readily with people who look like them and have the same cultural values. It's something I find deeply depressing though... what are we, social insects? Can we only cooperate in homogeneous hives?