6 ms·

hmm, I dont understand.Afaik Ipods were synced with Itunes,seems to me that one could put anything on Itunes,no matter where it came from.So if I synced my Ipod

by aikah 12y ago

hmm, I dont understand.Afaik Ipods were synced with Itunes,seems to me that one could put anything on Itunes,no matter where it came from.So if I synced my Ipod against my Itunes database,all songs should have been on the Ipod. Did Itunes used to work differently?

slimsag 12y ago
I don't really understand how they differentiated either. My assumption would be that they somehow determined if a song or album came from another media service through, for example: - Some file metadata (somehow). - Or perhaps by looking at what programs you had installed on your PC.
- jpttsn 12y ago
  The OP is sort of hiding that this was related to a DRM issue.
nemothekid 12y ago
That's how I remember it as well. You either had to load your music in via iTunes or buy it on the store. Any other way could wasn't very user friendly. (I'm assuming the suit is about 3rd party software attempting to directly sync with iPods, rather than use iTunes)
xsmasher 12y ago
I think they're referring to this: https://gigaom.com/2006/10/02/dvd-jon-fairplays-apple/ https://gigaom.com/2006/10/02/dvd-jon-fairplays-apple/ Apple DID let you sync raw MP3 and other non-DRM files, but only through iTunes. Apple did not delete those to my knowledge, but it sounds like the allegation is that Apple deleted DRM'd files that were side-loaded through other programs like DVD Jon's Doubletwist.
adnrw 12y ago
You needed iTunes to act as a conduit to get songs onto the iPod, but you could either sync it with one iTunes library, or leave it in manual mode and load songs from any iTunes. It worked then exactly the same way as it does now[1]. You couldn't sync songs on the device back into iTunes though[2] - if you had it in manual, put some songs on it (from another iTunes library, a third party app or anywhere else) and then tried to sync it with your iTunes, it would remove everything on there before syncing over your iTunes library. 1: http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201593 http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201593 2: Without one of many third-party helper apps. Sentuti was a lifesaver!
MBCook 12y ago
No, you're correct. I believe this refers to the case going on right now [1] where RealPlayer Music that was sold in '05 or so as 'iPod Compatible' was locked out more than once by iTunes updates. The thing is it worked (like PlayFair before it [2]) by circumventing/faking FairPlay, which was/is quite likely a violation of the DMCA. Apple patched the bugs and thus "excluded competitors". So because Apple "excluded competitors" (who where breaking their encryption) they artificially keep the price of music high by stifling competition (ignoring record company contracts and the fact that Real had a 3% market share at the time). You're right thought. Throughout the entire life of the iPod you've been able to play DRM free MP3s that you got through any method, legal or otherwise. Don't forget, Real didn't have a good reputation. And they were breaking Apple's DRM so you could play files that had their DRM so it's the "they were fighting for people's freedom" card isn't very strong. I see this as the same as when Palm faked USB IDs so the Pre would sync with iTunes. Someone else hacked their way into taking advantage of Apple's software and then got mad when the hack was removed and claimed "unfair competition". Sour grapes. [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/12/03/steve-jobs-video-testimony-and-emails-revealed-in-ipod-itunes-antitrust-lawsuit http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/12/03/steve-jobs-video-t... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay
- aikah 12y ago
  Thanks for the explanation.
- gnu8 12y ago
  It's not possible that it violated the DMCA because it would be fair use to copy legally purchased audio files to an iPod, regardless of vendor.
  - tadfisher 12y ago
    The DMCA has no exemption for "fair use". Fair use is a specific term, the meaning of which does not include being able to play any audio on hardware with copy-protection.
    - 12y ago

by aikah 12y ago

slimsag 12y ago

I don't really understand how they differentiated either. My assumption would be that they somehow determined if a song or album came from another media service through, for example: - Some file metadata (somehow). - Or perhaps by looking at what programs you had installed on your PC.

jpttsn 12y ago
The OP is sort of hiding that this was related to a DRM issue.

nemothekid 12y ago

That's how I remember it as well. You either had to load your music in via iTunes or buy it on the store. Any other way could wasn't very user friendly. (I'm assuming the suit is about 3rd party software attempting to directly sync with iPods, rather than use iTunes)

xsmasher 12y ago

I think they're referring to this: https://gigaom.com/2006/10/02/dvd-jon-fairplays-apple/ https://gigaom.com/2006/10/02/dvd-jon-fairplays-apple/ Apple DID let you sync raw MP3 and other non-DRM files, but only through iTunes. Apple did not delete those to my knowledge, but it sounds like the allegation is that Apple deleted DRM'd files that were side-loaded through other programs like DVD Jon's Doubletwist.

adnrw 12y ago

You needed iTunes to act as a conduit to get songs onto the iPod, but you could either sync it with one iTunes library, or leave it in manual mode and load songs from any iTunes. It worked then exactly the same way as it does now[1]. You couldn't sync songs on the device back into iTunes though[2] - if you had it in manual, put some songs on it (from another iTunes library, a third party app or anywhere else) and then tried to sync it with your iTunes, it would remove everything on there before syncing over your iTunes library. 1: http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201593 http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201593 2: Without one of many third-party helper apps. Sentuti was a lifesaver!

MBCook 12y ago

No, you're correct. I believe this refers to the case going on right now [1] where RealPlayer Music that was sold in '05 or so as 'iPod Compatible' was locked out more than once by iTunes updates. The thing is it worked (like PlayFair before it [2]) by circumventing/faking FairPlay, which was/is quite likely a violation of the DMCA. Apple patched the bugs and thus "excluded competitors". So because Apple "excluded competitors" (who where breaking their encryption) they artificially keep the price of music high by stifling competition (ignoring record company contracts and the fact that Real had a 3% market share at the time). You're right thought. Throughout the entire life of the iPod you've been able to play DRM free MP3s that you got through any method, legal or otherwise. Don't forget, Real didn't have a good reputation. And they were breaking Apple's DRM so you could play files that had their DRM so it's the "they were fighting for people's freedom" card isn't very strong. I see this as the same as when Palm faked USB IDs so the Pre would sync with iTunes. Someone else hacked their way into taking advantage of Apple's software and then got mad when the hack was removed and claimed "unfair competition". Sour grapes. [1] http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/12/03/steve-jobs-video-testimony-and-emails-revealed-in-ipod-itunes-antitrust-lawsuit http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/12/03/steve-jobs-video-t... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairPlay

aikah 12y ago
Thanks for the explanation.
gnu8 12y ago
It's not possible that it violated the DMCA because it would be fair use to copy legally purchased audio files to an iPod, regardless of vendor.
- tadfisher 12y ago
  The DMCA has no exemption for "fair use". Fair use is a specific term, the meaning of which does not include being able to play any audio on hardware with copy-protection.
  - 12y ago