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The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Narcissists make everything about them, and there seem to be

The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Narcissists make everything about them, and there seem to be more narcissists now than ever before (if there aren't more, the existing ones are certainly more prominent). We're all one of the crowd, like the author says. Technology has made it very easy to forget that.

gordaco 12y ago
More than that, we have a lot of narcissism-enhancing, or at least narcissism-displaying, tools. In the form of social networks.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  Oh, yes, for sure. I just didn't want to bring them up and have my comment be too on the nose ;)
- Namrog84 12y ago
  As we complain about narcissism enhancing social websites as we are on a social place portraying our own views and opinions. The line is a fuzzy one.
  - ivraatiems 12y ago
    It's true! I keep refreshing the page to see if people are upvoting me (I think that's what we call it on HN?). But some narcissism is healthy; the problem is more when it's allowed to run rampant or become the sole purpose behind some behavior. It's the difference between posting because you have something to say, hoping people might agree, and posting because you need people to agree with you.
    - Filthy_casual 12y ago
      I think spamming refresh happens not because you're narcissist but because you are eager to see if your opinion is well-received by others. That can be unhealthy. It's one thing to get feedback from multiple sources to notice things and behaviors that are harmful or unwanted (like being cocky or people feeling you're argumentative) and another if you're anxious to learn whether or not others will find value in what you said. It's roughly like... The "nice guy syndrome", where a person is engaged with what others expect from him so much that he undermines what he personally wants. In online forum terms this might mean that you're commenting in favor of the popular opinion of the forum and not voicing your own opinion to see whether it has flaws or not. Naturally, this is one of the many reasons why a community becomes an "echo chamber".
  - Dewie 12y ago
    I think I post a lot on places like HN to compensate for a lack of a social life. It's not like I even try to form any connection with people on forums online, so I'm not making friends, but I think there is a connection.
amelius 12y ago
True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is a burden on the environment.
amelius 12y ago
True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are relatively innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is an ecological disaster in progress.
notahacker 12y ago
People might be becoming more narcissistic, but mostly they're just finding it easier to permanently share the anecdotes they'd otherwise be doling out only to those in their immediate company at any given time. When the author argues that "Instead of taking time to absorb and consider, many people seem more inclined to travel quickly, tick off the ‘don’t miss’ highlights and form broad-brush assumptions based on the bare minimum of immersion" he's miles off. People have been targeting the 'sights' since the notion of overseas travel as a source of pleasure began aeons ago. If anything, the web actually encourages immersion, because the "sights" themselves can be enjoyed from all conceivable angles in the comfort of ones own bedroom. What's changed is that when travellers and tourists do visit the "highlights" - often called that for good reason - they'll inevitably feel the need to share selfies with their entire social network afterwards. The same goes for the photos shared as a permanent record of their night out at the bar down the road in Clapham rather than Tanzania, or the people who actually do go to Eastbourne and feel the need to check-in to show they've been to the actual pier. Or people sharing their pithy observations on the football, or approval of the latest Upworthy video. Actually, the most narcissistic act of all has got to be blogging, because I'm sure there's a time that travel journalists spent their time in between the tough grind of churning out freelance travel articles exploring the world around them rather than eloquently excoriating their usual audience on medium.com to broadcast how much more worldly they are than all the other holidaying proles.
rhizome 12y ago
Narcissism may have increased relative to the past, I don't know, but it seems a simpler explanation that travel has become much cheaper as time has gone on, so now there are more people capable of participating and talking about it. Couple that with the development of technological tools able to amplify communications to more people than in the past, and the incidence of travel (among many other topics) becomes more visible. It comes as no surprise that people do things that they see other people doing, which I don't think has changed much as time goes on. So, people travel, they talk about it, more people "hear" it, and more people travel as a result.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  That's fair, but it's not just about whether people are doing it. It's about how they present what they are doing.
  - rhizome 12y ago
    "How?" Are you saying that narcissism is a technique?
    - ivraatiems 12y ago
      I'm saying the presentation is a symptom of the purpose. In my opinion, social media are not designed to share ideas or experiences, but rather, as a means to seek approval from others. I think that somebody who Instagrams his trip is more likely to be doing so because he wants others to see what he's doing and judge him on it, rather than so that he can document the trip for himself. But that's only my opinion and not a matter of objective knowledge.
      - rhizome 12y ago
        That's pretty misanthropic and betrays a naive concept of narcissism.
jwmerrill 12y ago
> The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Old men have always bemoaned the narcissism of young people. It isn't "kids these days," it's just "kids." Maybe it's a cliche at this point to bring this up, but “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” is attributed to Socrates. I've enjoyed the Language Log's "narcissism skepticism" over the years. Maybe someone else will too: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism
- mst 12y ago
  I have a feeling "narcissism" is code for "the younger generation's status signaling mechanisms"
  - contingencies 12y ago
    +1 insightful ;)
cafard 12y ago
The old man that I am asks, Are you old enough to remember the days of slides and projectors? If not, a bit of research in popular culture should be able to turn up gags from the comics and the situation comedies about the horrors of the neighbors' slide show minutely cataloging their two week vacation to Yellowstone or Paris or ... Technology has made it possible to bore, amuse, or irritate a global audience rather than a neighborhood one.

gordaco 12y ago

More than that, we have a lot of narcissism-enhancing, or at least narcissism-displaying, tools. In the form of social networks.

ivraatiems 12y ago
Oh, yes, for sure. I just didn't want to bring them up and have my comment be too on the nose ;)
Namrog84 12y ago
As we complain about narcissism enhancing social websites as we are on a social place portraying our own views and opinions. The line is a fuzzy one.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  It's true! I keep refreshing the page to see if people are upvoting me (I think that's what we call it on HN?). But some narcissism is healthy; the problem is more when it's allowed to run rampant or become the sole purpose behind some behavior. It's the difference between posting because you have something to say, hoping people might agree, and posting because you need people to agree with you.
  - Filthy_casual 12y ago
    I think spamming refresh happens not because you're narcissist but because you are eager to see if your opinion is well-received by others. That can be unhealthy. It's one thing to get feedback from multiple sources to notice things and behaviors that are harmful or unwanted (like being cocky or people feeling you're argumentative) and another if you're anxious to learn whether or not others will find value in what you said. It's roughly like... The "nice guy syndrome", where a person is engaged with what others expect from him so much that he undermines what he personally wants. In online forum terms this might mean that you're commenting in favor of the popular opinion of the forum and not voicing your own opinion to see whether it has flaws or not. Naturally, this is one of the many reasons why a community becomes an "echo chamber".
- Dewie 12y ago
  I think I post a lot on places like HN to compensate for a lack of a social life. It's not like I even try to form any connection with people on forums online, so I'm not making friends, but I think there is a connection.

amelius 12y ago

True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is a burden on the environment.

amelius 12y ago

True. But while most forms of narcissism, depending on your view, are relatively innocent, the problem with this particular form of narcissism is that it is an ecological disaster in progress.

notahacker 12y ago

People might be becoming more narcissistic, but mostly they're just finding it easier to permanently share the anecdotes they'd otherwise be doling out only to those in their immediate company at any given time. When the author argues that "Instead of taking time to absorb and consider, many people seem more inclined to travel quickly, tick off the ‘don’t miss’ highlights and form broad-brush assumptions based on the bare minimum of immersion" he's miles off. People have been targeting the 'sights' since the notion of overseas travel as a source of pleasure began aeons ago. If anything, the web actually encourages immersion, because the "sights" themselves can be enjoyed from all conceivable angles in the comfort of ones own bedroom. What's changed is that when travellers and tourists do visit the "highlights" - often called that for good reason - they'll inevitably feel the need to share selfies with their entire social network afterwards. The same goes for the photos shared as a permanent record of their night out at the bar down the road in Clapham rather than Tanzania, or the people who actually do go to Eastbourne and feel the need to check-in to show they've been to the actual pier. Or people sharing their pithy observations on the football, or approval of the latest Upworthy video. Actually, the most narcissistic act of all has got to be blogging, because I'm sure there's a time that travel journalists spent their time in between the tough grind of churning out freelance travel articles exploring the world around them rather than eloquently excoriating their usual audience on medium.com to broadcast how much more worldly they are than all the other holidaying proles.

rhizome 12y ago

Narcissism may have increased relative to the past, I don't know, but it seems a simpler explanation that travel has become much cheaper as time has gone on, so now there are more people capable of participating and talking about it. Couple that with the development of technological tools able to amplify communications to more people than in the past, and the incidence of travel (among many other topics) becomes more visible. It comes as no surprise that people do things that they see other people doing, which I don't think has changed much as time goes on. So, people travel, they talk about it, more people "hear" it, and more people travel as a result.

ivraatiems 12y ago
That's fair, but it's not just about whether people are doing it. It's about how they present what they are doing.
- rhizome 12y ago
  "How?" Are you saying that narcissism is a technique?
  - ivraatiems 12y ago
    I'm saying the presentation is a symptom of the purpose. In my opinion, social media are not designed to share ideas or experiences, but rather, as a means to seek approval from others. I think that somebody who Instagrams his trip is more likely to be doing so because he wants others to see what he's doing and judge him on it, rather than so that he can document the trip for himself. But that's only my opinion and not a matter of objective knowledge.
    - rhizome 12y ago
      That's pretty misanthropic and betrays a naive concept of narcissism.

jwmerrill 12y ago

> The old man in me screams: It's not that travel has become narcissistic, it's that everything has. Old men have always bemoaned the narcissism of young people. It isn't "kids these days," it's just "kids." Maybe it's a cliche at this point to bring this up, but “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” is attributed to Socrates. I've enjoyed the Language Log's "narcissism skepticism" over the years. Maybe someone else will too: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/index.php?s=narcissism

mst 12y ago
I have a feeling "narcissism" is code for "the younger generation's status signaling mechanisms"
- contingencies 12y ago
  +1 insightful ;)

cafard 12y ago

The old man that I am asks, Are you old enough to remember the days of slides and projectors? If not, a bit of research in popular culture should be able to turn up gags from the comics and the situation comedies about the horrors of the neighbors' slide show minutely cataloging their two week vacation to Yellowstone or Paris or ... Technology has made it possible to bore, amuse, or irritate a global audience rather than a neighborhood one.