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He's alive and enjoys what he does on a day-to-day basis. Who are you to decide what life he should live? What exactly is the "help" he so desperately needs?

sillysaurus3 12y ago
If you will actually read my comment, I said "ask him whether he wants help."
- kstenerud 12y ago
  Or, you know, just leave him the fuck alone. He's done alright with his life by his own measure and doesn't need the condescension of "hello you poor soul, do you need help?" (which, I'm sure, he's already heard a million times by now)
  - sillysaurus3 12y ago
    No, I don't think we should leave the mentally ill alone. That's not how society works, nor how it should work. I think we should respect their wishes, when appropriate, but leaving them alone isn't a good decision.
    - kstenerud 12y ago
      I'm barely able to contain my rage at this moment, so I'll make it short. The ONLY time you're allowed to intervene is when someone's life and self image is visibly deteriorating. If it's stable, leave it the fuck alone. I've gotten into the habit of hiding what I've got because of people like you, and judging by the downvotes I'm getting, you're not alone in perpetuating the stigma and condescension. Every single "oh but you've done so WELL for yourself!" and "if you ever need anything..." is well intentioned, I know, but also incredibly hurtful. We all have our shit in life and each of us deals with it AS WE SEE FIT. Yeah, I do things that may seem weird to you, and sometimes it gets me into trouble, but that's my prerogative. LEAVE. IT. ALONE.
      - sillysaurus3 12y ago
        That's all you have to say. "No, thank you. Please leave me alone." And then you're left alone. We live in a world where we help each other. Offering help isn't a bad thing. Some people aren't as strong as you.
        kstenerud 12y ago
        I wish I could impart upon you the disempowering effect of condescension. When you "offer help" to someone who is happy with where they're at, and not in distress, you're basically telling them that they probably can't make it without you stepping in to support them. You're telling them that they, the wretched ones, are dependent upon the real people, who come down from on high to help them sort their obviously broken lives out. That HURTS. More than you could ever know.
        sillysaurus3 12y ago
        I appreciate the perspective. I'm here to learn and to understand. It's very difficult to understand this, but I can see how it might be true. If that's the case, the only alternative seems to be not to offer help to anyone. Is that preferable, especially if the entire world starts behaving like that? It just seems like "Hey, do you need any help?" can't possibly be a negative. But I'm willing to accept I could be wrong about that.
        kstenerud 12y ago
        Another alternative is to treat them the same way you treat normal people. i.e. If they are happy where they're at, and their life isn't deteriorating, just assume that they've got a good thing going on and don't need your help. > It just seems like "Hey, do you need any help?" can't possibly be a negative. The first time, it's not a negative. After the 10th, it gets old. After the 20th, you start to wonder if something's wrong with you. Once you're through that and realize there's nothing wrong with your life, every single offer hurts because it's telling you that you're NOT ok. That actually you CAN'T handle yourself without help. It's an insult hidden behind good intentions.
    - vitro 12y ago
      Does he hurt himself or others? If yes, interfere, otherwise, don't.
  - phkahler 12y ago
    >> Or, you know, just leave him the fuck alone. Do you hold the door for a guy in a wheelchair, or let it close behind you because you fear he's gonna resent any effort to help him?
    - jonah 12y ago
      I generally try to and it is received well. Recently though I offered to help a guy with crutches get into his car he gruffly declined with "I've been doing this long enough." So, ya never know. Probably generally better to offer than not.
  - notahacker 12y ago
    I don't think that we're really capable of judging the stability of someone's existence based on their creative output and a biographical sketch written by an apparently sympathetic blogger. That goes for assumptions that intervention by people with a much better understanding of a person's current situation can't improve it as much as the assumption that they could or should.
kazinator 12y ago
> What exactly is the "help" he so desperately needs? People to write programs for the OS, thereby doing QA and submitting bug reports, I would think. :)

sillysaurus3 12y ago

If you will actually read my comment, I said "ask him whether he wants help."

kstenerud 12y ago
Or, you know, just leave him the fuck alone. He's done alright with his life by his own measure and doesn't need the condescension of "hello you poor soul, do you need help?" (which, I'm sure, he's already heard a million times by now)
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  No, I don't think we should leave the mentally ill alone. That's not how society works, nor how it should work. I think we should respect their wishes, when appropriate, but leaving them alone isn't a good decision.
  - kstenerud 12y ago
    I'm barely able to contain my rage at this moment, so I'll make it short. The ONLY time you're allowed to intervene is when someone's life and self image is visibly deteriorating. If it's stable, leave it the fuck alone. I've gotten into the habit of hiding what I've got because of people like you, and judging by the downvotes I'm getting, you're not alone in perpetuating the stigma and condescension. Every single "oh but you've done so WELL for yourself!" and "if you ever need anything..." is well intentioned, I know, but also incredibly hurtful. We all have our shit in life and each of us deals with it AS WE SEE FIT. Yeah, I do things that may seem weird to you, and sometimes it gets me into trouble, but that's my prerogative. LEAVE. IT. ALONE.
    - sillysaurus3 12y ago
      That's all you have to say. "No, thank you. Please leave me alone." And then you're left alone. We live in a world where we help each other. Offering help isn't a bad thing. Some people aren't as strong as you.
      - kstenerud 12y ago
        I wish I could impart upon you the disempowering effect of condescension. When you "offer help" to someone who is happy with where they're at, and not in distress, you're basically telling them that they probably can't make it without you stepping in to support them. You're telling them that they, the wretched ones, are dependent upon the real people, who come down from on high to help them sort their obviously broken lives out. That HURTS. More than you could ever know.
        sillysaurus3 12y ago
        I appreciate the perspective. I'm here to learn and to understand. It's very difficult to understand this, but I can see how it might be true. If that's the case, the only alternative seems to be not to offer help to anyone. Is that preferable, especially if the entire world starts behaving like that? It just seems like "Hey, do you need any help?" can't possibly be a negative. But I'm willing to accept I could be wrong about that.
        kstenerud 12y ago
        Another alternative is to treat them the same way you treat normal people. i.e. If they are happy where they're at, and their life isn't deteriorating, just assume that they've got a good thing going on and don't need your help. > It just seems like "Hey, do you need any help?" can't possibly be a negative. The first time, it's not a negative. After the 10th, it gets old. After the 20th, you start to wonder if something's wrong with you. Once you're through that and realize there's nothing wrong with your life, every single offer hurts because it's telling you that you're NOT ok. That actually you CAN'T handle yourself without help. It's an insult hidden behind good intentions.
  - vitro 12y ago
    Does he hurt himself or others? If yes, interfere, otherwise, don't.
- phkahler 12y ago
  >> Or, you know, just leave him the fuck alone. Do you hold the door for a guy in a wheelchair, or let it close behind you because you fear he's gonna resent any effort to help him?
  - jonah 12y ago
    I generally try to and it is received well. Recently though I offered to help a guy with crutches get into his car he gruffly declined with "I've been doing this long enough." So, ya never know. Probably generally better to offer than not.
- notahacker 12y ago
  I don't think that we're really capable of judging the stability of someone's existence based on their creative output and a biographical sketch written by an apparently sympathetic blogger. That goes for assumptions that intervention by people with a much better understanding of a person's current situation can't improve it as much as the assumption that they could or should.

kazinator 12y ago

> What exactly is the "help" he so desperately needs? People to write programs for the OS, thereby doing QA and submitting bug reports, I would think. :)