4 ms·

The problem is that the supply curve is essentially vertical in the short-to-medium term. So even if companies are willing to pay more (trust me, many are, even

The problem is that the supply curve is essentially vertical in the short-to-medium term. So even if companies are willing to pay more (trust me, many are, even if it's not quite as high as I think it should be), they won't necessarily get more workers. Also, this is compounded by the shortage being of senior/experienced developers. As a hiring manager, I get dozens of resumes from new college & bootcamp grads every day. But we're not hiring fresh grads—we're looking to hire a few excellent senior developers, and they come along once in a blue moon. It'll probably take at least 10 years for domestic supply to catch up to domestic demand (I estimate it takes at least 10 years of development to become a senior dev). So even as pricing signals push more students to study CS, the supply won't catch up for another 10 years or so. So in the interim the only solution is to import foreign supply.

Animats 12y ago
So in the interim the only solution is to import foreign supply. So make some experienced developers. How many of your people are in offsite training right now? Well?
- morgante 12y ago
  > So make some experienced developers. How many of your people are in offsite training right now? It takes 10 years to build an experienced developer. We don't need to hire developers 10 years from now, we need to hire them now.
  - Animats 12y ago
    You just want them now. If you needed them, you'd pay what it costs to get them. Meanwhile, plan ahead for your future requirements. If all you need is webcrap, you don't need 10 years of experience.
    - morgante 12y ago
      > You just want them now. If you needed them, you'd pay what it costs to get them. We do. We've literally never had an offer rejected. The problem is just that there simply isn't a supply of candidates worth making offers to. As for this nonsense that we should somehow be training developers 10 years from now, that's just ridiculous. 95% of startups won't last 10 years and if we build our whole HR strategy on a 10 year pipeline we'd be dead.
      - rskar 12y ago
        Your HR strategy is already dead. Over-biased on the desire for the "senior/experienced developers". Meaning that your organization and the thousand others like yours perpetually create this apparent "shortage," since all "senior/experienced" had to start as "new college & bootcamp grads". Since there are rather few moments where organizations are willing to take the chances on the "college & bootcamp" types, there will of course be fewer moments where future "senior/experienced" ones are sown.
        vonmoltke 12y ago
        Hell, screw "college & bootcamp" types: how about engineers like me, who have 10 years of valuable but unconventional/niche experience? I can't get the time of day from any of these companies bitching and moaning about "shortages"[1] because I don't have the right buzzwords in my background. I'm right here, I'm willing to move almost anywhere for an embedded development position, and I'm being ignored. [1] I could be wrong on this; the companies I am trying to contact may not be the ones whining. Reading the conversation here and at /r/cscareerquestions though gives one the impression that this is a pervasive problem.
        morgante 12y ago
        > I'm willing to move almost anywhere for an embedded development position There's the problem. There just aren't that many people looking for embedded software developers. The companies complaining about a shortage are mostly building web & mobile software—if you were willing to consider that field, I'm sure more opportunities would open up.
nradov 12y ago
That's completely wrong. There is a large latent supply of labor. I have met many former software developers who have moved on to other fields (or become stay-at-home parents) who would be willing to return to software ... at the right price.

Animats 12y ago

So in the interim the only solution is to import foreign supply. So make some experienced developers. How many of your people are in offsite training right now? Well?

morgante 12y ago
> So make some experienced developers. How many of your people are in offsite training right now? It takes 10 years to build an experienced developer. We don't need to hire developers 10 years from now, we need to hire them now.
- Animats 12y ago
  You just want them now. If you needed them, you'd pay what it costs to get them. Meanwhile, plan ahead for your future requirements. If all you need is webcrap, you don't need 10 years of experience.
  - morgante 12y ago
    > You just want them now. If you needed them, you'd pay what it costs to get them. We do. We've literally never had an offer rejected. The problem is just that there simply isn't a supply of candidates worth making offers to. As for this nonsense that we should somehow be training developers 10 years from now, that's just ridiculous. 95% of startups won't last 10 years and if we build our whole HR strategy on a 10 year pipeline we'd be dead.
    - rskar 12y ago
      Your HR strategy is already dead. Over-biased on the desire for the "senior/experienced developers". Meaning that your organization and the thousand others like yours perpetually create this apparent "shortage," since all "senior/experienced" had to start as "new college & bootcamp grads". Since there are rather few moments where organizations are willing to take the chances on the "college & bootcamp" types, there will of course be fewer moments where future "senior/experienced" ones are sown.
      - vonmoltke 12y ago
        Hell, screw "college & bootcamp" types: how about engineers like me, who have 10 years of valuable but unconventional/niche experience? I can't get the time of day from any of these companies bitching and moaning about "shortages"[1] because I don't have the right buzzwords in my background. I'm right here, I'm willing to move almost anywhere for an embedded development position, and I'm being ignored. [1] I could be wrong on this; the companies I am trying to contact may not be the ones whining. Reading the conversation here and at /r/cscareerquestions though gives one the impression that this is a pervasive problem.
        morgante 12y ago
        > I'm willing to move almost anywhere for an embedded development position There's the problem. There just aren't that many people looking for embedded software developers. The companies complaining about a shortage are mostly building web & mobile software—if you were willing to consider that field, I'm sure more opportunities would open up.

nradov 12y ago

That's completely wrong. There is a large latent supply of labor. I have met many former software developers who have moved on to other fields (or become stay-at-home parents) who would be willing to return to software ... at the right price.