4 ms·

moron4hire, You'd be less intelligent too if you'd been selectively bred for thousands of years to promote complacence and stupidity. Still, to call farm anim

moron4hire, You'd be less intelligent too if you'd been selectively bred for thousands of years to promote complacence and stupidity. Still, to call farm animals "barely more than walking vegetables" is highly uninformed. Pigs, for one, have been shown to be about as intelligent as dogs. Cows have been shown to celebrate after solving problems. Chickens and turkeys seem to be less intelligent, but they are nonetheless worthy of serious moral consideration.

moron4hire 17y ago
While jeremymims didn't explicitly espouse a vegan viewpoint, he did mention the "slaughter [of] 10 billion sentient, thinking animals", an emotionally charged choice of words which in my experience is a characterization that only ever comes from a vegan viepoint. Serious moral consideration is a whole different story than "don't eat them". This article, and thus my statement, has nothing to do with the torture of animals. Most of my meat comes from local farmers, people I know personally, even places I worked when I was a kid. Cattle can and are raised in humane conditions. But when a cow can push against an electric fence, recoil from getting shocked, and then push on the fence again, there is clearly something missing in that cow brain that accounts for learning in other creatures. Cows are not intelligent creatures.
- danielmims 17y ago
  "While jeremymims didn't explicitly espouse a vegan viewpoint, he did mention the "slaughter [of] 10 billion sentient, thinking animals", an emotionally charged choice of words which in my experience is a characterization that only ever comes from a vegan viepoint." "Emotionally charged," eh? Is it not "slaughter?" Of course it is. Are these slaughtered creatures not "sentient" -- that is, do they not have the ability to experience sensations? Of course they do. Are they not "thinking," even though they use their brains to process sensory inputs? Of course they are. Tell me, when did facts become "emotional" expressions? You should really bother to ask yourself, What exactly do I deny about his statement?, prior to auto-defending whatever thought first comes to mind. "Serious moral consideration is a whole different story than "don't eat them"." You definitely win the obliviousness award. "Serious moral consideration" requires that you not arbitrarily dismiss viewpoints simply because you have a bias against the label. All you've stated is that you have an aversion to the word "vegan." You haven't made any other point whatsoever. "Serious moral consideration," indeed. "But when a cow can push against an electric fence, recoil from getting shocked, and then push on the fence again, there is clearly something missing in that cow brain that accounts for learning in other creatures." Perhaps the cow is like countless human prisoners throughout history, who have gone insane at the tedium of their prolonged imprisonment. Perhaps the cow has not lost its mental footing, but instead prefers the sensation of something, anything, rather than the tedium of standing in a stall. "Cows are not intelligent creatures." Clearly, you've done a great study into the matter. I'm sure you know that cows have personalities and problem-solving abilities. I'm certain that you must know they share every part of the human brain except for the pre-frontal cortex, which allows us to do all sorts of bad things. So, maybe they're not smart enough to enslave, torture, and murder other animals en masse, but hey, that isn't really a strike against them.

moron4hire 17y ago

While jeremymims didn't explicitly espouse a vegan viewpoint, he did mention the "slaughter [of] 10 billion sentient, thinking animals", an emotionally charged choice of words which in my experience is a characterization that only ever comes from a vegan viepoint. Serious moral consideration is a whole different story than "don't eat them". This article, and thus my statement, has nothing to do with the torture of animals. Most of my meat comes from local farmers, people I know personally, even places I worked when I was a kid. Cattle can and are raised in humane conditions. But when a cow can push against an electric fence, recoil from getting shocked, and then push on the fence again, there is clearly something missing in that cow brain that accounts for learning in other creatures. Cows are not intelligent creatures.

danielmims 17y ago
"While jeremymims didn't explicitly espouse a vegan viewpoint, he did mention the "slaughter [of] 10 billion sentient, thinking animals", an emotionally charged choice of words which in my experience is a characterization that only ever comes from a vegan viepoint." "Emotionally charged," eh? Is it not "slaughter?" Of course it is. Are these slaughtered creatures not "sentient" -- that is, do they not have the ability to experience sensations? Of course they do. Are they not "thinking," even though they use their brains to process sensory inputs? Of course they are. Tell me, when did facts become "emotional" expressions? You should really bother to ask yourself, What exactly do I deny about his statement?, prior to auto-defending whatever thought first comes to mind. "Serious moral consideration is a whole different story than "don't eat them"." You definitely win the obliviousness award. "Serious moral consideration" requires that you not arbitrarily dismiss viewpoints simply because you have a bias against the label. All you've stated is that you have an aversion to the word "vegan." You haven't made any other point whatsoever. "Serious moral consideration," indeed. "But when a cow can push against an electric fence, recoil from getting shocked, and then push on the fence again, there is clearly something missing in that cow brain that accounts for learning in other creatures." Perhaps the cow is like countless human prisoners throughout history, who have gone insane at the tedium of their prolonged imprisonment. Perhaps the cow has not lost its mental footing, but instead prefers the sensation of something, anything, rather than the tedium of standing in a stall. "Cows are not intelligent creatures." Clearly, you've done a great study into the matter. I'm sure you know that cows have personalities and problem-solving abilities. I'm certain that you must know they share every part of the human brain except for the pre-frontal cortex, which allows us to do all sorts of bad things. So, maybe they're not smart enough to enslave, torture, and murder other animals en masse, but hey, that isn't really a strike against them.