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"What can be said is that cows are not sapient/conscious." The ability to perceive pleasure and pain is absolutely enough to not be tortured and slaughtered. Y

"What can be said is that cows are not sapient/conscious." The ability to perceive pleasure and pain is absolutely enough to not be tortured and slaughtered. You have done nothing to prove (or even argue) that it shouldn't be, yet the burden is on you before you can justify torture and slaughter, which you have to admit is at least potentially morally catastrophic. The claim that cows are not conscious is patently ridiculous. Not only have you avoided defining what it is to be conscious, but the scientific evidence is also mounting against your position. For you to compare the complex sentience/nervous systems of farm animals to the single-celled existence of amoebas is, quite frankly, insane. Again, you have done nothing to support your claim. The reason you choose to believe this about cows and other animals -- despite mounting scientific evidence to the contrary -- and not about children is that you find it convenient to do so in our current cultural/legal framework. And that's a truly stupid reason. No one should take your remarks here seriously.

danielmims 17y ago
The scientific evidence supporting the similarity of other animals' experiences of the world to humans' experiences is indeed "mounting." It shouldn't have to, because the incredibly evidenced theory of evolution -- the single unifying idea behind all modern biological understanding -- necessitates that such is the case. But scientists are also species-ist, even when the truth stares them right in the face. Oh, and I would like to take a moment to point out that humans, via that supposedly morally superior "sapience" (talk about a circular, species-indulgent term), have used their intelligence to needlessly torture and kill tens of billions of fellow creatures every year in death camps, and to cause the only mass extinction of life on Earth ever initiated by a single species. If moral status comes down to what you do -- not what you are -- then humanity has a lot of work to do, and a lot of sacrifice to make, before it can claim the mantle of special moral worth.

danielmims 17y ago

The scientific evidence supporting the similarity of other animals' experiences of the world to humans' experiences is indeed "mounting." It shouldn't have to, because the incredibly evidenced theory of evolution -- the single unifying idea behind all modern biological understanding -- necessitates that such is the case. But scientists are also species-ist, even when the truth stares them right in the face. Oh, and I would like to take a moment to point out that humans, via that supposedly morally superior "sapience" (talk about a circular, species-indulgent term), have used their intelligence to needlessly torture and kill tens of billions of fellow creatures every year in death camps, and to cause the only mass extinction of life on Earth ever initiated by a single species. If moral status comes down to what you do -- not what you are -- then humanity has a lot of work to do, and a lot of sacrifice to make, before it can claim the mantle of special moral worth.