6 ms·

Only tangentially related but hey: There is an interesting trick that was common for a time and still gets referenced by magicians where even the worst chess p

by glomph 12y ago

Only tangentially related but hey: There is an interesting trick that was common for a time and still gets referenced by magicians where even the worst chess player can guarantee that they will win at least half of n chess games where n is any even number. They will also be able to appear to need very little time when they get to each table. The trick of course is just to play each player against another. The magician acts as a proxy and makes the moves of one player against another. Of course it takes a little practice at memorisation but magicians are often practised at mnemonics anyway.

tbrake 12y ago
Derren Brown pulled this off but with 9 boards, scoring 4W 3L 2D. The strongest players he played "against" each other and was able to beat the weakest (relatively speaking) player there. Quite impressive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0
- zeroonetwothree 12y ago
  I doubt he actually had to "beat" anyone. Magicians don't like to do tricks that might not work :).
  - Osmium 12y ago
    > Magicians don't like to do tricks that might not work :) I actually don't think this is true. As I understand it, a given routine will have a number of high-risk tricks that may work, say, only 1-in-3 times. If they do work, they're highly effective, precisely because they're so implausible, and if they don't work you can just pretend it's a bluff and move onto plan B. It's all about effective showmanship and managing expectations. (Disclaimer: not a magician!)
    - gyom 12y ago
      That's kind of a cool approach. As long as you can "salvage" the trick, then nobody needs to know about the failed portion. One of my friends had a card trick that involved me selecting a card. Before starting the trick, he jokingly picked a card at random from the deck, and asked me if that was my card. He had 1/52 chances of being right, but it would have been an insane trick if it had worked. He guessed wrong (naturally), shrugged and went on with the actual trick as though the first attempt was just a joke, to be forgotten because an actual trick was about to take place.
      - glomph 12y ago
        He may also have been practising a risky method of forcing a card on you. It is standard advice to do this often as it is the only real way of getting good at it.
- andreash 12y ago
  anyone knows how he did the number predections in the end?
  - rotinomlled 12y ago
    Magic!
slm_HN 12y ago
This is part of the plot of Sidney Sheldon's If Tomorrow Comes. A woman on a cruise ship with two chess grandmasters bets a large amount of money that she can draw a game with each of them. Of course she plays them at the same time, one game with white, the other black. It's hilariously improbable to chess players, but some of my non-playing friends thought it was clever.
- krisgenre 12y ago
  Lot people do this in online chess games by using a computer.
  - mathattack 12y ago
    If you do this too much your ranking gets raised. And at that point, why bother?
bluecalm 12y ago
Well, it's not always the case but usually a player giving a simul is white in all the games so it's not going to work :)
- eru 12y ago
  Unless they manage to lose exactly one move?
  - muyuu 12y ago
    Huh? Black and White are not symmetrical, so it's not a matter of chucking a turn somewhere somehow.
    - eru 12y ago
      They are symmetrical once you mirror.
      - muyuu 12y ago
        Nope, it's pretty basic theory that 1 turn advantage changes this symmetry completely. Take a chess board and try it yourself.
        eru 12y ago
        That's why you need to lose exactly one move to make it symmetric. Like my original comment said. And we don't want symmetry on one board, but between two boards.
        muyuu 12y ago
        Still no, you cannot lose a move in the opening. There is no "pass" move in chess. In fact any initial move no matter how wasteful you try to make it, will very soon alter the game. Even rook pawn a3 or h3 will soon have an influence in the game and cannot be ignored. It's very hard to craft the equivalent of a lost move in the early game - say, use an extra move with the bishop or something like that - and it's virtually impossible without the collaboration of the opponent. Try it yourself vs a few instances of your favourite chess software or just here http://www.chess.com/play/computer http://www.chess.com/play/computer (requires Java). Open a few instances and see how can you chuck away a move.

by glomph 12y ago

tbrake 12y ago

Derren Brown pulled this off but with 9 boards, scoring 4W 3L 2D. The strongest players he played "against" each other and was able to beat the weakest (relatively speaking) player there. Quite impressive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evZmpsl3jI0

zeroonetwothree 12y ago
I doubt he actually had to "beat" anyone. Magicians don't like to do tricks that might not work :).
- Osmium 12y ago
  > Magicians don't like to do tricks that might not work :) I actually don't think this is true. As I understand it, a given routine will have a number of high-risk tricks that may work, say, only 1-in-3 times. If they do work, they're highly effective, precisely because they're so implausible, and if they don't work you can just pretend it's a bluff and move onto plan B. It's all about effective showmanship and managing expectations. (Disclaimer: not a magician!)
  - gyom 12y ago
    That's kind of a cool approach. As long as you can "salvage" the trick, then nobody needs to know about the failed portion. One of my friends had a card trick that involved me selecting a card. Before starting the trick, he jokingly picked a card at random from the deck, and asked me if that was my card. He had 1/52 chances of being right, but it would have been an insane trick if it had worked. He guessed wrong (naturally), shrugged and went on with the actual trick as though the first attempt was just a joke, to be forgotten because an actual trick was about to take place.
    - glomph 12y ago
      He may also have been practising a risky method of forcing a card on you. It is standard advice to do this often as it is the only real way of getting good at it.
andreash 12y ago
anyone knows how he did the number predections in the end?
- rotinomlled 12y ago
  Magic!

slm_HN 12y ago

This is part of the plot of Sidney Sheldon's If Tomorrow Comes. A woman on a cruise ship with two chess grandmasters bets a large amount of money that she can draw a game with each of them. Of course she plays them at the same time, one game with white, the other black. It's hilariously improbable to chess players, but some of my non-playing friends thought it was clever.

krisgenre 12y ago
Lot people do this in online chess games by using a computer.
- mathattack 12y ago
  If you do this too much your ranking gets raised. And at that point, why bother?

bluecalm 12y ago

Well, it's not always the case but usually a player giving a simul is white in all the games so it's not going to work :)

eru 12y ago
Unless they manage to lose exactly one move?
- muyuu 12y ago
  Huh? Black and White are not symmetrical, so it's not a matter of chucking a turn somewhere somehow.
  - eru 12y ago
    They are symmetrical once you mirror.
    - muyuu 12y ago
      Nope, it's pretty basic theory that 1 turn advantage changes this symmetry completely. Take a chess board and try it yourself.
      - eru 12y ago
        That's why you need to lose exactly one move to make it symmetric. Like my original comment said. And we don't want symmetry on one board, but between two boards.
        muyuu 12y ago
        Still no, you cannot lose a move in the opening. There is no "pass" move in chess. In fact any initial move no matter how wasteful you try to make it, will very soon alter the game. Even rook pawn a3 or h3 will soon have an influence in the game and cannot be ignored. It's very hard to craft the equivalent of a lost move in the early game - say, use an extra move with the bishop or something like that - and it's virtually impossible without the collaboration of the opponent. Try it yourself vs a few instances of your favourite chess software or just here http://www.chess.com/play/computer http://www.chess.com/play/computer (requires Java). Open a few instances and see how can you chuck away a move.