11 ms·

Magnus Carlsen Repeats at World Chess Championship

260 points by sethbannon 12y ago

cheepin 12y ago
OMG SPOILERS But seriously, I was following this like a TV show, kind of hoping Anand would win for the extra drama it would create. Congrats to Carlsen, clearly an amazing player but... #Caruana2016
- vowelless 12y ago
  You could virtually hear the nerves cracking on move 27. I feel like this game will be burned in my brain for a long time and serve as a constant reminder to think objectively in moments of stress.
  - nullmove 12y ago
    I can't imagine Anand ever playing Rb4 in any other situation except this one. Earlier on the move b5 was truly spectacular and gave Black the edge, I think this is the first time Anand gained such a dynamic initiative over Carlsen in this whole match (barring the game he won). Also Carlsen was short on time, I mean so was Anand himself but with one game left this was a now or never kind of moment. On the whole I feel that Rb4 was more of a hopeful and deliberate gamble (as in he knew what he was getting into) than an actual nervous breakdown.
    - sabertaylor2 12y ago
      This approach is what chess pedagogue, Dan Heisman, would call "hope chess." Which is in contrast to the superior approach of full calculations.
      - vowelless 12y ago
        Exactly. I am not a rated player but dabbled in chess throughout my youth. One lesson I learned that stood out is to always avoid "hope chess" (although Josh Waitzkin articulated it in a different way). Even when playing with weaker opponents, always play as if you are playing a top rated GM. This was an unnecessary gamble. He let the fact that he had to win the game cloud his judgement.
- petegrif 12y ago
  I agree. Caruana is a freak and he continues to get stronger.
- asdfologist 12y ago
  Why not 2015? WCC is held every year.
  - mdemonic 12y ago
    Not from this year on.
  - blaabjerg 12y ago
    2013/2014 was an exception. WCC has been held every other year for the last few years, and it will return to that now. Honestly I'm not quite sure why they decided to arrange the 2013 WCC in the first place. Every other year makes a lot of sense for different reasons, though. It allows the champion to be more active outside of the championship (not just prepare for the next one all the time), it allows for a proper candidates cycle, it makes it easier to find venues/sponsors, etc.
sharkweek 12y ago
It's been a real treat watching Carlsen play these past few years in his rise to fame - He has a fundamental understanding of endgame far above anyone else playing at his level. It's fun watching the latest generation of players add to the skill of the game, with Carlsen atop that list.
mhartl 12y ago
It's fascinating to read about the blunders both competitors made. One of the many strengths of computer chess programs is that they are virtually guaranteed never to make such mistakes.
- tedsanders 12y ago
  I'd be careful about making claims that chess programs are virtually guaranteed not to make mistakes. Even today's top engines have flaws that can be exploited. For example, here's a bizarre game where the chess engine Rybka throws away its game against Nakamura because it lacks the long-term positional understanding to realize the game ought to be a draw: http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/nakamura-defeats-rybka-in-a-loooong-game http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/nakamura-defeats-ryb... What happens in that game is that Nakamura locks up all the pawns and then sacrifices some material. Rybka, because it's up material, think it's winning and doesn't want to draw. But because a game of chess is drawn if 50 moves are played without a pawn move or capture, Rybka's only option to avoid a draw is to sacrifice a pawn, blowing open a hole in its pawn wall and thereby seeding its own destruction. The mistake that Rybka makes is one that even a patzer like myself can understand. It's a mistake at a level well below human grandmaster quality. You can read more about anti-computer chess in general here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-computer_tactics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-computer_tactics Computers are better than humans on average, but not in all dimensions.
  - tzs 12y ago
    Here's more recent Nakamura vs. computer play: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84631 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84631 That was a four game match, played at G/45 with a 30 second increment. Nakamura's opponent was the latest developer build of Stockfish, running on an 8 core 3 GHz Mac Pro. Stockfish had no opening book or endgame tablebase. For the first two games (which, for some reason, are listed as games 2 and 3 at the above link), Nakamura had the assistance of an older version of Rybka (about 200 points less strong than Stockfish on the computer rating lists) running on a 2008 MacBook. For the remaining two games, Nakamura played without computer assistance.
deleted 12y ago
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sethbannon 12y ago
For those that weren't following closely, this rematch was nothing like the last world championship between Carlsen and Anand, when Carlsen won in a blowout. Carlsen didn't seem to be in top form this time, and Anand clearly came better prepared than the last match. Two games stood out as being particularly fascinating for me: Game 3, which Anand won: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-wch-g3-the-tiger-roars http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-wch-g3-the-tiger-roars And game 11, in which Carlsen clinched the title: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g11-in-dramatic-finale-carlsen-retains-title http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g11-in-dramatic-finale-ca...
- tzs 12y ago
  I wouldn't call 2013 a blowout, considering that it ended at the most likely final score based on their ratings at the time. Carlsen was 95 points higher than Anand, and 50 points higher than Anand's best ever. Assuming a 70% draw chance, there was a 22.6% chance of the match ending 3-0-7. 17.9% chance of 2-0-9, 13.6% chance of 4-0-5. There was only about a 15-18% chance Anand would win a game. I think people overestimated Anand's chances last year because he had a positive score against Carlsen going into the match, and that underestimated Carlsen because it included games long before Carlsen reached his present level. Or they thought wrongly that Carlsen would not perform as well in match play as he does in tournament play.
  - dfan 12y ago
    I'd say you're both right; it was a blowout, and people should have predicted it based on their ratings (and of course many did).
  - dillonforrest 12y ago
    The word choice "blowout" is arguably strong, but I do agree that this year's match was much less one-sided than last year's. This one was even until the very last game, while Carlsen had a good lead after only Game 6 last year.
    - pk2200 12y ago
Jakeimo 12y ago
Here's a link to the games: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84885&crosstable=1 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84885&crosstable...
mbell 12y ago
I found it interesting that there was a stream on twitch.tv that had over 10,000 viewers for this. It's how I found it, not being much a chess follower but still finding the game interesting. I was a very surprised to see so many viewers.
- ixwt 12y ago
  Jerry (ChessNetwork) will stream sometimes (typically once a month) and will normally get 3-4k viewers. He normally plays speed chess, vocalizing his thoughts as he plays. Sometimes he will play several timed games at once. He's an interesting personality. I enjoy watching him. He did the same thing during the last grandmaster match of Carlsen v. Anand.
  - kazagistar 12y ago
    For a 1-man show, the production quality was pretty good. Discussion of possibilities, consulting with both chess databases and computer algorithms for potential moves, and a constant stream of high level analysis of possibilities and positions that allows even a novice like me to at least get a taste of what goes through the minds the these grandmasters. I hope he keeps it up; it certainly has rekindled my appreciation for chess.
  - icelancer 12y ago
    Jerry's blitz games are awesome to watch. Especially when he blunders - takes it incredibly well and always in good humor.
  - prezjordan 12y ago
    He's ridiculously entertaining. My favorite Jerry moment is when he becomes the victim of a Scholar's Mate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwsw1W7eotQ&t=24m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwsw1W7eotQ&t=24m30s (at 24:30) It's also the beauty of chess - you can be down by a mile and come back when your opponent blunders. At my level (awful) it happens all the time.
- davyjones 12y ago
  Quite a chess following in India. And likely that many were watching because of V. Anand.
dmourati 12y ago
Carlsen came to play an exhibition at my previous company. He played against 8 players simultaneously. Two had been chess-club players and competitively ranked. One employee played Carlsen to a draw. This earned several gasps from his handlers who had never seen such a thing. They asked what she was ranked and she said she wasn't with a wry smile. Truly something special to behold.
- petilon 12y ago
  Imagine playing chess while blindfolded. Now imagine playing against 33 people simultaneously while being blindfolded and winning 29 games and losing none. This was done by American Grandmaster Timur Gareev, see: http://www.uschess.org/content/view/12187/709 http://www.uschess.org/content/view/12187/709 To do this you have keep 33 chessboards in your mind simultaneously, and track the movement of 32 pieces on each board.
  - bluecalm 12y ago
    The record is even higher at 46 boards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_chess#Simultaneous_and_blindfold_records http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_chess#... Playing a game blindfolded seems like incredible feat if you are not serious/competitive chess player. Playing several sounds like magic. The thing is though that at certain level almost anybody can play decent blindfolded game, especially vs much weaker opponent. Playing several takes some practice but it's mainly connected with not being confused (anchoring positions to something so it's easy to switch). It's really not that much more taxing on the brain as chess players have tons of positions memorized anyway. I am talking about 2-3-4 games. 10 is already very impressive to me and things like 20+ is insane even for competitive chess player standards.
    - petegrif 12y ago
      IT sounds like an incredible feat even if you are a serious/competitive chess player. And whilst it is indeed the case that 'at a certain level almost anybody can play a decent blindfolded game' that level is high.
pk2200 12y ago
Game 6 was the turning point of the match. Carlsen made a horrific blunder, and if Anand had noticed it, he very likely would have won and taken a 1-game lead in the match. Instead he lost, giving Carlsen a 1-game lead. http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g6-carlsen-won-anand-missed-big-chance http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g6-carlsen-won-anand-miss...
ramkalari 12y ago
Anand doesn't like playing long games. Carlsen doesn't give an inch even when he is down. Regardless of rating differences, Anand's game was in bad shape in 2013 and it just continued in the world championship. He is playing much better these days. It is just that his game doesn't match up very well to Carlsen's relentless style. That said, he had his chances this time like how he predicted before the match. He just couldn't take them. I'm always reminded of Federer-Nadal rivalry when I watch these two play.
known 12y ago
Bell Curve for Anand. Anand should gracefully retire from chess and passon the batton to younger generation.
- praneshp 12y ago
  pass on the baton? You're talking team sports nonsense here. If a younger person is better, he'll beat Anand in the candidates tournament/be ranked higher. He's the challenger to the world title, and lost a pretty close match. I wonder what's lacking in that, grace-wise.
- gokhan 12y ago
  Haha. Younger gen should first beat him in candidates, no? Do you want Barcelona or Real Madrid to retire because they didn't win the trophy last year? Nerves aside, Anand is still great and was almost there in this match. Don't underestimate him so easily.
linuxfan 12y ago
Anand's play improved vastly during this WCC. In retrospect, he should've drawn the 11th game and pressed Carlsen with white pieces in game 12. Magnus played well but it appeared that he wasn't as prepared as Vishy for this match. Every champion eventually gets dethroned by a youngster. The new generation of players including Caruana, Karjakin, Nakumara etc. will pose a bigger threat to Calrsen than old-timers such as Vishy, Gelfand and Kramnik.
KedarMhaswade 12y ago
This is a great achievement. Though I am a Vishy Anand fan and I really liked the way the contest was fought, I do think that Carlsen deserved to win. World chess championships, with their rich history are our treasure!

260 points by sethbannon 12y ago

OMG SPOILERS But seriously, I was following this like a TV show, kind of hoping Anand would win for the extra drama it would create. Congrats to Carlsen, clearly an amazing player but... #Caruana2016

vowelless 12y ago
You could virtually hear the nerves cracking on move 27. I feel like this game will be burned in my brain for a long time and serve as a constant reminder to think objectively in moments of stress.
- nullmove 12y ago
  I can't imagine Anand ever playing Rb4 in any other situation except this one. Earlier on the move b5 was truly spectacular and gave Black the edge, I think this is the first time Anand gained such a dynamic initiative over Carlsen in this whole match (barring the game he won). Also Carlsen was short on time, I mean so was Anand himself but with one game left this was a now or never kind of moment. On the whole I feel that Rb4 was more of a hopeful and deliberate gamble (as in he knew what he was getting into) than an actual nervous breakdown.
  - sabertaylor2 12y ago
    This approach is what chess pedagogue, Dan Heisman, would call "hope chess." Which is in contrast to the superior approach of full calculations.
    - vowelless 12y ago
      Exactly. I am not a rated player but dabbled in chess throughout my youth. One lesson I learned that stood out is to always avoid "hope chess" (although Josh Waitzkin articulated it in a different way). Even when playing with weaker opponents, always play as if you are playing a top rated GM. This was an unnecessary gamble. He let the fact that he had to win the game cloud his judgement.
petegrif 12y ago
I agree. Caruana is a freak and he continues to get stronger.
asdfologist 12y ago
Why not 2015? WCC is held every year.
- mdemonic 12y ago
  Not from this year on.
- blaabjerg 12y ago
  2013/2014 was an exception. WCC has been held every other year for the last few years, and it will return to that now. Honestly I'm not quite sure why they decided to arrange the 2013 WCC in the first place. Every other year makes a lot of sense for different reasons, though. It allows the champion to be more active outside of the championship (not just prepare for the next one all the time), it allows for a proper candidates cycle, it makes it easier to find venues/sponsors, etc.

sharkweek 12y ago

It's been a real treat watching Carlsen play these past few years in his rise to fame - He has a fundamental understanding of endgame far above anyone else playing at his level. It's fun watching the latest generation of players add to the skill of the game, with Carlsen atop that list.

mhartl 12y ago

It's fascinating to read about the blunders both competitors made. One of the many strengths of computer chess programs is that they are virtually guaranteed never to make such mistakes.

tedsanders 12y ago
I'd be careful about making claims that chess programs are virtually guaranteed not to make mistakes. Even today's top engines have flaws that can be exploited. For example, here's a bizarre game where the chess engine Rybka throws away its game against Nakamura because it lacks the long-term positional understanding to realize the game ought to be a draw: http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/nakamura-defeats-rybka-in-a-loooong-game http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/nakamura-defeats-ryb... What happens in that game is that Nakamura locks up all the pawns and then sacrifices some material. Rybka, because it's up material, think it's winning and doesn't want to draw. But because a game of chess is drawn if 50 moves are played without a pawn move or capture, Rybka's only option to avoid a draw is to sacrifice a pawn, blowing open a hole in its pawn wall and thereby seeding its own destruction. The mistake that Rybka makes is one that even a patzer like myself can understand. It's a mistake at a level well below human grandmaster quality. You can read more about anti-computer chess in general here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-computer_tactics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-computer_tactics Computers are better than humans on average, but not in all dimensions.
- tzs 12y ago
  Here's more recent Nakamura vs. computer play: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84631 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84631 That was a four game match, played at G/45 with a 30 second increment. Nakamura's opponent was the latest developer build of Stockfish, running on an 8 core 3 GHz Mac Pro. Stockfish had no opening book or endgame tablebase. For the first two games (which, for some reason, are listed as games 2 and 3 at the above link), Nakamura had the assistance of an older version of Rybka (about 200 points less strong than Stockfish on the computer rating lists) running on a 2008 MacBook. For the remaining two games, Nakamura played without computer assistance.

deleted 12y ago

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sethbannon 12y ago

For those that weren't following closely, this rematch was nothing like the last world championship between Carlsen and Anand, when Carlsen won in a blowout. Carlsen didn't seem to be in top form this time, and Anand clearly came better prepared than the last match. Two games stood out as being particularly fascinating for me: Game 3, which Anand won: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-wch-g3-the-tiger-roars http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-wch-g3-the-tiger-roars And game 11, in which Carlsen clinched the title: http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g11-in-dramatic-finale-carlsen-retains-title http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g11-in-dramatic-finale-ca...

tzs 12y ago
I wouldn't call 2013 a blowout, considering that it ended at the most likely final score based on their ratings at the time. Carlsen was 95 points higher than Anand, and 50 points higher than Anand's best ever. Assuming a 70% draw chance, there was a 22.6% chance of the match ending 3-0-7. 17.9% chance of 2-0-9, 13.6% chance of 4-0-5. There was only about a 15-18% chance Anand would win a game. I think people overestimated Anand's chances last year because he had a positive score against Carlsen going into the match, and that underestimated Carlsen because it included games long before Carlsen reached his present level. Or they thought wrongly that Carlsen would not perform as well in match play as he does in tournament play.
- dfan 12y ago
  I'd say you're both right; it was a blowout, and people should have predicted it based on their ratings (and of course many did).
- dillonforrest 12y ago
  The word choice "blowout" is arguably strong, but I do agree that this year's match was much less one-sided than last year's. This one was even until the very last game, while Carlsen had a good lead after only Game 6 last year.
  - pk2200 12y ago

Jakeimo 12y ago

Here's a link to the games: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84885&crosstable=1 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=84885&crosstable...

mbell 12y ago

I found it interesting that there was a stream on twitch.tv that had over 10,000 viewers for this. It's how I found it, not being much a chess follower but still finding the game interesting. I was a very surprised to see so many viewers.

ixwt 12y ago
Jerry (ChessNetwork) will stream sometimes (typically once a month) and will normally get 3-4k viewers. He normally plays speed chess, vocalizing his thoughts as he plays. Sometimes he will play several timed games at once. He's an interesting personality. I enjoy watching him. He did the same thing during the last grandmaster match of Carlsen v. Anand.
- kazagistar 12y ago
  For a 1-man show, the production quality was pretty good. Discussion of possibilities, consulting with both chess databases and computer algorithms for potential moves, and a constant stream of high level analysis of possibilities and positions that allows even a novice like me to at least get a taste of what goes through the minds the these grandmasters. I hope he keeps it up; it certainly has rekindled my appreciation for chess.
- icelancer 12y ago
  Jerry's blitz games are awesome to watch. Especially when he blunders - takes it incredibly well and always in good humor.
- prezjordan 12y ago
  He's ridiculously entertaining. My favorite Jerry moment is when he becomes the victim of a Scholar's Mate here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwsw1W7eotQ&t=24m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwsw1W7eotQ&t=24m30s (at 24:30) It's also the beauty of chess - you can be down by a mile and come back when your opponent blunders. At my level (awful) it happens all the time.
davyjones 12y ago
Quite a chess following in India. And likely that many were watching because of V. Anand.

dmourati 12y ago

Carlsen came to play an exhibition at my previous company. He played against 8 players simultaneously. Two had been chess-club players and competitively ranked. One employee played Carlsen to a draw. This earned several gasps from his handlers who had never seen such a thing. They asked what she was ranked and she said she wasn't with a wry smile. Truly something special to behold.

petilon 12y ago
Imagine playing chess while blindfolded. Now imagine playing against 33 people simultaneously while being blindfolded and winning 29 games and losing none. This was done by American Grandmaster Timur Gareev, see: http://www.uschess.org/content/view/12187/709 http://www.uschess.org/content/view/12187/709 To do this you have keep 33 chessboards in your mind simultaneously, and track the movement of 32 pieces on each board.
- bluecalm 12y ago
  The record is even higher at 46 boards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_chess#Simultaneous_and_blindfold_records http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_chess#... Playing a game blindfolded seems like incredible feat if you are not serious/competitive chess player. Playing several sounds like magic. The thing is though that at certain level almost anybody can play decent blindfolded game, especially vs much weaker opponent. Playing several takes some practice but it's mainly connected with not being confused (anchoring positions to something so it's easy to switch). It's really not that much more taxing on the brain as chess players have tons of positions memorized anyway. I am talking about 2-3-4 games. 10 is already very impressive to me and things like 20+ is insane even for competitive chess player standards.
  - petegrif 12y ago
    IT sounds like an incredible feat even if you are a serious/competitive chess player. And whilst it is indeed the case that 'at a certain level almost anybody can play a decent blindfolded game' that level is high.

pk2200 12y ago

Game 6 was the turning point of the match. Carlsen made a horrific blunder, and if Anand had noticed it, he very likely would have won and taken a 1-game lead in the match. Instead he lost, giving Carlsen a 1-game lead. http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g6-carlsen-won-anand-missed-big-chance http://en.chessbase.com/post/sochi-g6-carlsen-won-anand-miss...

ramkalari 12y ago

Anand doesn't like playing long games. Carlsen doesn't give an inch even when he is down. Regardless of rating differences, Anand's game was in bad shape in 2013 and it just continued in the world championship. He is playing much better these days. It is just that his game doesn't match up very well to Carlsen's relentless style. That said, he had his chances this time like how he predicted before the match. He just couldn't take them. I'm always reminded of Federer-Nadal rivalry when I watch these two play.

known 12y ago

Bell Curve for Anand. Anand should gracefully retire from chess and passon the batton to younger generation.

praneshp 12y ago
pass on the baton? You're talking team sports nonsense here. If a younger person is better, he'll beat Anand in the candidates tournament/be ranked higher. He's the challenger to the world title, and lost a pretty close match. I wonder what's lacking in that, grace-wise.
gokhan 12y ago
Haha. Younger gen should first beat him in candidates, no? Do you want Barcelona or Real Madrid to retire because they didn't win the trophy last year? Nerves aside, Anand is still great and was almost there in this match. Don't underestimate him so easily.

linuxfan 12y ago

Anand's play improved vastly during this WCC. In retrospect, he should've drawn the 11th game and pressed Carlsen with white pieces in game 12. Magnus played well but it appeared that he wasn't as prepared as Vishy for this match. Every champion eventually gets dethroned by a youngster. The new generation of players including Caruana, Karjakin, Nakumara etc. will pose a bigger threat to Calrsen than old-timers such as Vishy, Gelfand and Kramnik.

KedarMhaswade 12y ago

This is a great achievement. Though I am a Vishy Anand fan and I really liked the way the contest was fought, I do think that Carlsen deserved to win. World chess championships, with their rich history are our treasure!