5 ms·

Would be even cooler if "Python-ized" (i.e. if spacing mattered): that is they could look like this

by mlvljr 12y ago

robin_reala 12y ago
That’s basically YAML (that they mentioned as a possibility). http://yaml.org/ http://yaml.org/
jacquesm 12y ago
Significant whitespace in configuration files... what could possibly go wrong. Didn't we learn something from Makefiles here? Does that 'tab' look like 8 or 4 spaces to you?
- tormeh 12y ago
  Same that goes wrong in Python: Nothing. As long as tabs are outlawed, anyway.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    > As long as tabs are outlawed, anyway. When did that happen?
  - takeda 12y ago
    I see many people continuing holy wars between tabs and spaces, even to a point to dismiss specific technology because of it. If you simply enable option in your editor to make white spaces visible (i . e. you can tell the difference between tab and space), the problem becomes silly. I personally like to use tabs for indentation, because of huge flexibility being able to change tab size (which changes indentation) as needed, but that just me.
    - tormeh 12y ago
      It doesn't really matter which it is, as long as it's one of them. Spaces are more copy-paste friendly though.
- Redoubts 12y ago
  Tabs look like a light grey arrow in any editor I care to use.
- acdha 12y ago
  This is mentioned a lot by Python newcomers but rarely turns out to be a problem in practice because, unlike GNU Make, Python simply requires you to be consistent throughout the same file. That strikes me as an even more valuable property for configuration, which is more often accessed by multiple people and tools and more often as a distraction from other work rather than the primary focus.
  - josteink 12y ago
    > Python simply requires you to be consistent throughout the same file. You or the other team of developers/maintainers/sys-admins looking over or patching this particular file. Using whatever default editor they prefer with whatever config an tabifying/untabifying behaviour that has. Or maybe they are applying a patch produced on a different system with different tabulation? Or the other 2000 common ways for accuracy to go out the window. > That strikes me as an even more valuable property for configuration So you'd like to deliberately make the configuration system more brittle for absolutely no gain? Yeah. Count me up for anything else. I personally prefer s-expressions, but I would be willing to go the full mile with pretty much any format NOT based on whitespace. Whitespace is bullshit and depending on it even more so.
    - acdha 12y ago
      If your team can't pick a single style and stick with, it is exceedingly unlikely that whitespace will be your biggest source of problems.
      - josteink 12y ago
        So your argument is that because you should be doing $X anyway, let's make the entire OS's configuration system needlessly brittle, just because you're a python dev and like python's style. I don't think you understand the philosophy behind FreeBSD: it's about creating a predictable and reliable OS. This goes against those goals. Simple as that.
        acdha 12y ago

Would be even cooler if "Python-ized" (i.e. if spacing mattered): that is they could look like this

by mlvljr 12y ago

Would be even cooler if "Python-ized" (i.e. if spacing mattered): that is they could look like this

robin_reala 12y ago

That’s basically YAML (that they mentioned as a possibility). http://yaml.org/ http://yaml.org/

jacquesm 12y ago

Significant whitespace in configuration files... what could possibly go wrong. Didn't we learn something from Makefiles here? Does that 'tab' look like 8 or 4 spaces to you?

tormeh 12y ago
Same that goes wrong in Python: Nothing. As long as tabs are outlawed, anyway.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  > As long as tabs are outlawed, anyway. When did that happen?
- takeda 12y ago
  I see many people continuing holy wars between tabs and spaces, even to a point to dismiss specific technology because of it. If you simply enable option in your editor to make white spaces visible (i . e. you can tell the difference between tab and space), the problem becomes silly. I personally like to use tabs for indentation, because of huge flexibility being able to change tab size (which changes indentation) as needed, but that just me.
  - tormeh 12y ago
    It doesn't really matter which it is, as long as it's one of them. Spaces are more copy-paste friendly though.
Redoubts 12y ago
Tabs look like a light grey arrow in any editor I care to use.
acdha 12y ago
This is mentioned a lot by Python newcomers but rarely turns out to be a problem in practice because, unlike GNU Make, Python simply requires you to be consistent throughout the same file. That strikes me as an even more valuable property for configuration, which is more often accessed by multiple people and tools and more often as a distraction from other work rather than the primary focus.
- josteink 12y ago
  > Python simply requires you to be consistent throughout the same file. You or the other team of developers/maintainers/sys-admins looking over or patching this particular file. Using whatever default editor they prefer with whatever config an tabifying/untabifying behaviour that has. Or maybe they are applying a patch produced on a different system with different tabulation? Or the other 2000 common ways for accuracy to go out the window. > That strikes me as an even more valuable property for configuration So you'd like to deliberately make the configuration system more brittle for absolutely no gain? Yeah. Count me up for anything else. I personally prefer s-expressions, but I would be willing to go the full mile with pretty much any format NOT based on whitespace. Whitespace is bullshit and depending on it even more so.
  - acdha 12y ago
    If your team can't pick a single style and stick with, it is exceedingly unlikely that whitespace will be your biggest source of problems.
    - josteink 12y ago
      So your argument is that because you should be doing $X anyway, let's make the entire OS's configuration system needlessly brittle, just because you're a python dev and like python's style. I don't think you understand the philosophy behind FreeBSD: it's about creating a predictable and reliable OS. This goes against those goals. Simple as that.
      - acdha 12y ago