10 ms·

Orwell and China: Nineteen Eighty-four in Chinese

71 points by Turukawa 12y ago

anovio 12y ago
I wish there was an auto summation tool or keywords of major topics for every link. I wonder how many good articles are closed immediately after they're opened simply because of the word count. Back on topic, do they actually print copies of the translated version in China? It would be mighty ironic if that is the case.
- Dorian-Marie 12y ago
  Conciseness is a quality too
  - contingencies 12y ago
    'concision'; better: 'brevity'
- wonnage 12y ago
  That's what instapaper is for.
- LLWM 12y ago
  How is that ironic?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- desdiv 12y ago
  George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-four is just the kind of book that you would expect to be banned in China – all that talk of Big Brother, Newspeak and the rewriting of history is far too close to the bone, surely. So I was amazed to come across it on open sale in a state-run bookshop, in Yanji 延吉 on the North Korean border in fact. Nineteen Eighty-four is all over the place in China, it turns out. A Chinese website lists no fewer than 13 translations published in the PRC between 1985 and 2012, and it’s easy to find at least three or four downloadable or online translations on a quick internet search. They are indeed printed in China, and are openly sold in China, without any government censorship surprisingly.
  - duaneb 12y ago
    > They are indeed printed in China, and are openly sold in China, without any government censorship surprisingly. Censorship applied to materials about censorship seems like it's made for the Streisand effect—look at the vibrant samizdat culture in the soviet union. A much better way is to have it fall into insignificance out of lack of cultural application. You can bet they measure up well to a government that exercises prosecution of thought crime.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I'd be interested to know if it had ever been banned there (which is a very different question about what happens now). And let's not forget the number of times it has been challenged in US schools for communism (even though it is anti-communist) and for sexual content. http://www.deletecensorship.org/downloads/booklist_hpb.pdf http://www.deletecensorship.org/downloads/booklist_hpb.pdf
- timguoqk 12y ago
  Of course you can buy it. In fact it's pretty popular. http://www.amazon.cn/%E4%B8%80%E4%B9%9D%E5%85%AB%E5%9B%9B-%E4%B9%94%E6%B2%BB%E2%80%A2%E5%A5%A5%E5%A8%81%E5%B0%94/dp/B002EVOBNU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416601836&sr=8-1&keywords=1984 http://www.amazon.cn/%E4%B8%80%E4%B9%9D%E5%85%AB%E5%9B%9B-%E... Other books like The Brave New World are also openly sold.
  - SiVal 12y ago
    "Of course"? There is no "of course" when it comes to freedom of the press in China. "It happens that" you can buy it. Someone in a position of authority decided that it, unlike many other things, would be allowed. That's all. My Chinese tutor in 1985 was a grad student from Beijing University. He once quoted Animal Farm to me. I was surprised he had read it. He told me that the Party made it available on a "need to know basis", in English only, to students in English programs at top universities. Things have opened up a lot since then. Animal Farm is available, in Chinese, in urban bookstores. But some things that opened up for a while closed again only to reopen later. It's not as if it's just foreign propaganda that the Chinese exercise firm state control over media. These days, an old book with allegorical criticism of general socialist/communist concepts won't usually be considered enough of a threat to ban, but more up-to-date and specific criticism of the Chinese Communist Party, its policies, or its leadership often will be. It's hardly a matter of course to the outside world what the opaque information control process in China will be doing at any given time.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      Much of the book/media selling industry is very informal, so a book/movie/tv show that goes on the banned list can actually become more available as the Pirates take it as a signal that it might be of interest.
- protonfish 12y ago
  Interesting idea about article length. I typically start reading without looking at the length. If the article is interesting I'll continue reading or just leave the tab open to finish later. If it starts to suck, I'll check the length and if it doesn't end quickly, hit the back button.
- bcoates 12y ago
  I have no idea how popular the translated versions are, but the English-language bookstore I visited on a tourist street in Beijing had a decent selection of Orwell but no 1984 or Animal Farm (you'd probably have the opposite problem in a US bookstore, with those two available but none of his Socialist stuff.) Also missing from the 20th century canon in an decently-sized bookstore were Catch 22 and The Catcher in the Rye but that might be more a regional taste/popularity/vulgarity thing.
creamyhorror 12y ago
I find blogs like these rather impressive: long discursions on a topic of interest, as opposed to the snappy marketing pieces that I see much more often. Clearly the author is a dedicated researcher in his field. It's odd and ironic, but yes, the book has been repeatedly published in China and is widely available, even from a state-run bookstore. Perhaps this illustrates the point that, if you treat something like it ain't no thang, people don't notice and focus on it (the "forbidden fruit syndrome"). Or, alternatively, that most people don't care about political satire as long their lives are improving materially. A quote by Orwell from the article, showing his ethnic/national sensitivity in 1947: We all have these feelings in one form or another. If a Chinese wants to be called a Chinese and not a Chinaman, if a Scotsman objects to be called a Scotchman, or if a Negro demands his capital N, it is only the most ordinary politeness to do what is asked of one. The sad thing about this alphabet-book is that the writer obviously has no intention of insulting the “lower” races. He is merely not quite aware that they are human beings like ourselves. A “native” is a comic black man with very few clothes on; a “Chinaman” wears a pigtail and travels in a junk– which is about as true as saying that an Englishman wears a top hat and travels in a hansom cab. This unconsciously patronising attitude is learned in childhood and then, as here, passed onto a new generation of children. (The article explains that 'Negro' was a term of respect at the time.)
- redthrowaway 12y ago
  I have no doubt that if the Party thought people would draw a parallel between them and the Party in 1984, it would be banned. The fact is, China is nothing like Oceania, or even the Soviet Union. Certain political discussions are censored, but otherwise people have almost entirely free reign to live their lives how they see fit. The only state that even remotely resembles the world described in 1984 these days is North Korea.
  - contingencies 12y ago
    The only state... I see many parallels in Singapore, the 'Disneyland with the Death Penalty'[1] where a carefully cultivated, ever-youthful cross-section of public workers (police, army, etc.) forcibly intrude upon the departing or transiting traveller even as they flee at the airport gate lounge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Pena...
georgechen 12y ago
Off-topic slightly, but it's worth mentioning Louisa Lim, former NPR / BBC's China correspondent had recently published the book The People's Republic of Amnesia: Tiananmen Revisited. It's worth a read. It covered the current state of political life in China from 1989 ~ now. The whole concept of "1984 in China" is very much a topic talked about in the book. In the book it mentioned there was a case where regional government authorities forced the public to go back to work and school on Sat. and Sunday as a way to prevent crowd to gather for a weekend protest. It's rather fascinating.
- coupdejarnac 12y ago
  Whoa, I thought she was still reporting from China. I guess she is now persona non grata. Funny story: She came through Dallas a few months ago for a book signing tour. At the last minute I had to travel out of town. I sent my Taiwan-born gf in my place to see her speak and get a book signed. She was apparently one of the few, or the only, Asians in attendance. Louisa Lim even remarked how few Chinese have shown up to her book signings. So, even in America, Chinese here have a blind spot for recent Chinese history.
  - potatolicious 12y ago
    > "So, even in America, Chinese here have a blind spot for recent Chinese history." And it's getting worse. I've noticed a trend in recent years where the new Chinese bourgeoisie and intelligentsia are outright dismissive of books and other media addressing these topics, attributing them as Western slander driven primarily by envy over China's economic miracle.
  - georgechen 12y ago
    I believe she is now a visiting professor of Journalism at the University of Michigan through a grant by the Knight-Wallace Foundation. Truly misses her voice on the radio and reporting from China.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
jdjabgnnska 12y ago
Ironically, this website is hosted as a wordpress.com subdomain, so it cannot be accessed in China (I can't open it here)

71 points by Turukawa 12y ago

I wish there was an auto summation tool or keywords of major topics for every link. I wonder how many good articles are closed immediately after they're opened simply because of the word count. Back on topic, do they actually print copies of the translated version in China? It would be mighty ironic if that is the case.

Dorian-Marie 12y ago
Conciseness is a quality too
- contingencies 12y ago
  'concision'; better: 'brevity'
wonnage 12y ago
That's what instapaper is for.
LLWM 12y ago
How is that ironic?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
desdiv 12y ago
George Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-four is just the kind of book that you would expect to be banned in China – all that talk of Big Brother, Newspeak and the rewriting of history is far too close to the bone, surely. So I was amazed to come across it on open sale in a state-run bookshop, in Yanji 延吉 on the North Korean border in fact. Nineteen Eighty-four is all over the place in China, it turns out. A Chinese website lists no fewer than 13 translations published in the PRC between 1985 and 2012, and it’s easy to find at least three or four downloadable or online translations on a quick internet search. They are indeed printed in China, and are openly sold in China, without any government censorship surprisingly.
- duaneb 12y ago
  > They are indeed printed in China, and are openly sold in China, without any government censorship surprisingly. Censorship applied to materials about censorship seems like it's made for the Streisand effect—look at the vibrant samizdat culture in the soviet union. A much better way is to have it fall into insignificance out of lack of cultural application. You can bet they measure up well to a government that exercises prosecution of thought crime.
- DanBC 12y ago
  I'd be interested to know if it had ever been banned there (which is a very different question about what happens now). And let's not forget the number of times it has been challenged in US schools for communism (even though it is anti-communist) and for sexual content. http://www.deletecensorship.org/downloads/booklist_hpb.pdf http://www.deletecensorship.org/downloads/booklist_hpb.pdf
timguoqk 12y ago
Of course you can buy it. In fact it's pretty popular. http://www.amazon.cn/%E4%B8%80%E4%B9%9D%E5%85%AB%E5%9B%9B-%E4%B9%94%E6%B2%BB%E2%80%A2%E5%A5%A5%E5%A8%81%E5%B0%94/dp/B002EVOBNU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416601836&sr=8-1&keywords=1984 http://www.amazon.cn/%E4%B8%80%E4%B9%9D%E5%85%AB%E5%9B%9B-%E... Other books like The Brave New World are also openly sold.
- SiVal 12y ago
  "Of course"? There is no "of course" when it comes to freedom of the press in China. "It happens that" you can buy it. Someone in a position of authority decided that it, unlike many other things, would be allowed. That's all. My Chinese tutor in 1985 was a grad student from Beijing University. He once quoted Animal Farm to me. I was surprised he had read it. He told me that the Party made it available on a "need to know basis", in English only, to students in English programs at top universities. Things have opened up a lot since then. Animal Farm is available, in Chinese, in urban bookstores. But some things that opened up for a while closed again only to reopen later. It's not as if it's just foreign propaganda that the Chinese exercise firm state control over media. These days, an old book with allegorical criticism of general socialist/communist concepts won't usually be considered enough of a threat to ban, but more up-to-date and specific criticism of the Chinese Communist Party, its policies, or its leadership often will be. It's hardly a matter of course to the outside world what the opaque information control process in China will be doing at any given time.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    Much of the book/media selling industry is very informal, so a book/movie/tv show that goes on the banned list can actually become more available as the Pirates take it as a signal that it might be of interest.
protonfish 12y ago
Interesting idea about article length. I typically start reading without looking at the length. If the article is interesting I'll continue reading or just leave the tab open to finish later. If it starts to suck, I'll check the length and if it doesn't end quickly, hit the back button.
bcoates 12y ago
I have no idea how popular the translated versions are, but the English-language bookstore I visited on a tourist street in Beijing had a decent selection of Orwell but no 1984 or Animal Farm (you'd probably have the opposite problem in a US bookstore, with those two available but none of his Socialist stuff.) Also missing from the 20th century canon in an decently-sized bookstore were Catch 22 and The Catcher in the Rye but that might be more a regional taste/popularity/vulgarity thing.

creamyhorror 12y ago

I find blogs like these rather impressive: long discursions on a topic of interest, as opposed to the snappy marketing pieces that I see much more often. Clearly the author is a dedicated researcher in his field. It's odd and ironic, but yes, the book has been repeatedly published in China and is widely available, even from a state-run bookstore. Perhaps this illustrates the point that, if you treat something like it ain't no thang, people don't notice and focus on it (the "forbidden fruit syndrome"). Or, alternatively, that most people don't care about political satire as long their lives are improving materially. A quote by Orwell from the article, showing his ethnic/national sensitivity in 1947: We all have these feelings in one form or another. If a Chinese wants to be called a Chinese and not a Chinaman, if a Scotsman objects to be called a Scotchman, or if a Negro demands his capital N, it is only the most ordinary politeness to do what is asked of one. The sad thing about this alphabet-book is that the writer obviously has no intention of insulting the “lower” races. He is merely not quite aware that they are human beings like ourselves. A “native” is a comic black man with very few clothes on; a “Chinaman” wears a pigtail and travels in a junk– which is about as true as saying that an Englishman wears a top hat and travels in a hansom cab. This unconsciously patronising attitude is learned in childhood and then, as here, passed onto a new generation of children. (The article explains that 'Negro' was a term of respect at the time.)

redthrowaway 12y ago
I have no doubt that if the Party thought people would draw a parallel between them and the Party in 1984, it would be banned. The fact is, China is nothing like Oceania, or even the Soviet Union. Certain political discussions are censored, but otherwise people have almost entirely free reign to live their lives how they see fit. The only state that even remotely resembles the world described in 1984 these days is North Korea.
- contingencies 12y ago
  The only state... I see many parallels in Singapore, the 'Disneyland with the Death Penalty'[1] where a carefully cultivated, ever-youthful cross-section of public workers (police, army, etc.) forcibly intrude upon the departing or transiting traveller even as they flee at the airport gate lounge. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_Death_Pena...

georgechen 12y ago

Off-topic slightly, but it's worth mentioning Louisa Lim, former NPR / BBC's China correspondent had recently published the book The People's Republic of Amnesia: Tiananmen Revisited. It's worth a read. It covered the current state of political life in China from 1989 ~ now. The whole concept of "1984 in China" is very much a topic talked about in the book. In the book it mentioned there was a case where regional government authorities forced the public to go back to work and school on Sat. and Sunday as a way to prevent crowd to gather for a weekend protest. It's rather fascinating.

coupdejarnac 12y ago
Whoa, I thought she was still reporting from China. I guess she is now persona non grata. Funny story: She came through Dallas a few months ago for a book signing tour. At the last minute I had to travel out of town. I sent my Taiwan-born gf in my place to see her speak and get a book signed. She was apparently one of the few, or the only, Asians in attendance. Louisa Lim even remarked how few Chinese have shown up to her book signings. So, even in America, Chinese here have a blind spot for recent Chinese history.
- potatolicious 12y ago
  > "So, even in America, Chinese here have a blind spot for recent Chinese history." And it's getting worse. I've noticed a trend in recent years where the new Chinese bourgeoisie and intelligentsia are outright dismissive of books and other media addressing these topics, attributing them as Western slander driven primarily by envy over China's economic miracle.
- georgechen 12y ago
  I believe she is now a visiting professor of Journalism at the University of Michigan through a grant by the Knight-Wallace Foundation. Truly misses her voice on the radio and reporting from China.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

jdjabgnnska 12y ago

Ironically, this website is hosted as a wordpress.com subdomain, so it cannot be accessed in China (I can't open it here)