7 ms·

The article did say the prosecution also claimed to have a confession from the defendant.

by elwin 12y ago

morganvachon 12y ago
I thought that was the other juvenile defendant, the one not being tried as an adult; maybe I misread it. Edit: I did misread it, sorry. It was Taylor who confessed. I wouldn't be surprised though, if the defense still uses the near-contempt and the overall lack of evidence to try to plead down or even still seek a dismissal.
nagrom 12y ago
If you give up a confession when confronted with inadmissible evidence that should not be brought before a court, should the confession count as admissible?
- refurb 12y ago
  Under our current system... yes. Cops can lie to you to extract a confession.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    "Anything you say can and will be used against you a court of law..." means exactly that. Anything you say will be used against you, and will never be used to help you. Even if you talk and it would "help" your case, it will be thrown out as "hearsay".[1] [1] "In Praise of the Fifth Amendment Right to Not Be a Witness Against Yourself": http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
  - mentat 12y ago
    It's best to assume that cops will lie to you. I sat on a jury for a murder trial where the defendant confessed while high. His lawyer was totally incompetent as well, but the confession pretty much did him in.
- PhasmaFelis 12y ago
  A public defender of my acquaintance has a client who's in prison for a murder he definitely did not commit, because the police showed him a bunch of entirely falsified evidence, snowed him into thinking he'd gone crazy and then forgotten afterwards, and took down his bewildered "I guess I did do it" as a confession.
  - schoen 12y ago
    That's incredibly disturbing. I guess a lot of the criminal justice system has a bedrock, usually unstated, assumption that people know what they did and didn't do. That assumption is already questionable some of the time, but I suppose falls apart further when evidence can be fabricated to an extent that makes defendants doubt their sanity. I wonder if this will occur more frequently in an era when people can start to create highly realistic video that appears to be of a particular person performing a particular act (so someone can show you full-blown "surveillance camera footage" of you doing something that you didn't do).
    - alan_cx 12y ago
      From the little I understand of psychology, essentially all you need to do is get the accused to doubt their memory, then push them over the edge. Consequently, I think that high quality CCTV wouldn't be necessary. A blurry hint would be enough to convince a softened defendant.
  - alan_cx 12y ago
    FWIW, here in the UK we have an entertainer called Derren Brown. He specializes in psychological "magic". A while ago he did a show where he set up a punter to believe he had committed murder. The mark reacted exactly as your friend client. IIRC, he actually gave himself up to the police, really believing was guilty. IMO, very disturbing and going by the TV episode, even though Im sure it didnt show everything, too simple. If any one is interested in tracking it down, Derren Brown - The Experiments. Episode The Guilt Trip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Derren_Brown#Derren_Brown:_The_Experiments_.282011.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Derren_Brown#D... Added: Sorry, the point is that Im shocked that you are saying your police actually do this, in this way. When watching these shows its easy to assume that there is some extra trickery going on, so it cant happen to a real person in real life. Your case shows that it can.
- fleitz 12y ago
  The confession is admissible as evidence, it doesn't result in an automatic conviction. Now that the defence knows about the stingray they will paint the rest of the case as fruit from the poison tree. They just need a reason to call the officer and ask about the stingray. The prosecutor can't withdraw the defences' questions. The defence will merely reintroduce the evidence as evidence of police misconduct, this isn't going away anytime soon.
logn 12y ago
Shouldn't the confession be thrown out too? Fruit of the forbidden tree of cellphone data. The police are allowed to lie during interrogations, but they're not allowed to search/seize private property (without probable cause) to fuel their interrogations.

The article did say the prosecution also claimed to have a confession from the defendant.

by elwin 12y ago

The article did say the prosecution also claimed to have a confession from the defendant.

I thought that was the other juvenile defendant, the one not being tried as an adult; maybe I misread it. Edit: I did misread it, sorry. It was Taylor who confessed. I wouldn't be surprised though, if the defense still uses the near-contempt and the overall lack of evidence to try to plead down or even still seek a dismissal.

nagrom 12y ago

If you give up a confession when confronted with inadmissible evidence that should not be brought before a court, should the confession count as admissible?

refurb 12y ago
Under our current system... yes. Cops can lie to you to extract a confession.
- Alupis 12y ago
  "Anything you say can and will be used against you a court of law..." means exactly that. Anything you say will be used against you, and will never be used to help you. Even if you talk and it would "help" your case, it will be thrown out as "hearsay".[1] [1] "In Praise of the Fifth Amendment Right to Not Be a Witness Against Yourself": http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
- mentat 12y ago
  It's best to assume that cops will lie to you. I sat on a jury for a murder trial where the defendant confessed while high. His lawyer was totally incompetent as well, but the confession pretty much did him in.
PhasmaFelis 12y ago
A public defender of my acquaintance has a client who's in prison for a murder he definitely did not commit, because the police showed him a bunch of entirely falsified evidence, snowed him into thinking he'd gone crazy and then forgotten afterwards, and took down his bewildered "I guess I did do it" as a confession.
- schoen 12y ago
  That's incredibly disturbing. I guess a lot of the criminal justice system has a bedrock, usually unstated, assumption that people know what they did and didn't do. That assumption is already questionable some of the time, but I suppose falls apart further when evidence can be fabricated to an extent that makes defendants doubt their sanity. I wonder if this will occur more frequently in an era when people can start to create highly realistic video that appears to be of a particular person performing a particular act (so someone can show you full-blown "surveillance camera footage" of you doing something that you didn't do).
  - alan_cx 12y ago
    From the little I understand of psychology, essentially all you need to do is get the accused to doubt their memory, then push them over the edge. Consequently, I think that high quality CCTV wouldn't be necessary. A blurry hint would be enough to convince a softened defendant.
- alan_cx 12y ago
  FWIW, here in the UK we have an entertainer called Derren Brown. He specializes in psychological "magic". A while ago he did a show where he set up a punter to believe he had committed murder. The mark reacted exactly as your friend client. IIRC, he actually gave himself up to the police, really believing was guilty. IMO, very disturbing and going by the TV episode, even though Im sure it didnt show everything, too simple. If any one is interested in tracking it down, Derren Brown - The Experiments. Episode The Guilt Trip. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Derren_Brown#Derren_Brown:_The_Experiments_.282011.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Derren_Brown#D... Added: Sorry, the point is that Im shocked that you are saying your police actually do this, in this way. When watching these shows its easy to assume that there is some extra trickery going on, so it cant happen to a real person in real life. Your case shows that it can.
fleitz 12y ago
The confession is admissible as evidence, it doesn't result in an automatic conviction. Now that the defence knows about the stingray they will paint the rest of the case as fruit from the poison tree. They just need a reason to call the officer and ask about the stingray. The prosecutor can't withdraw the defences' questions. The defence will merely reintroduce the evidence as evidence of police misconduct, this isn't going away anytime soon.

logn 12y ago

Shouldn't the confession be thrown out too? Fruit of the forbidden tree of cellphone data. The police are allowed to lie during interrogations, but they're not allowed to search/seize private property (without probable cause) to fuel their interrogations.