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Milk Might Not Be Doing You Much Good
- xordon 12y agoHacker News: how to drink milk like a hacker! Use 2 hands, one on each side of the cup. Open mouth. Lift arms, remembering to keep back straight. Pour. DRINK DRINK DRINK DRINK Ask HN: How do you drink milk?
- warfangle 12y agoA fatty/protein-filled drink like milk is still better for you than what a majority of americans consume gallons of a week: carbonated high fructose corn syrup.
- spodek 12y ago> A fatty/protein-filled drink like milk is still better for you than what a majority of americans consume gallons of a week: carbonated high fructose corn syrup. And less healthy than the water our ancestors drank exclusively for millions of years before we domesticated animals (except for babies and their mothers' milk).
- w1ntermute 12y agoActually, before the advent of farming, the water our ancestors drank was probably pretty clean, since hunter-gatherer societies had fairly low population densities. And you can't directly compare something that causes acute disease (dirty water) with something that causes chronic disease (soda).
- Dewie 12y agoIndeed; how healthy something is is measured by how long we as a species have been doing it... /s
- w1ntermute 12y agoActually, soda sales have been tanking: http://time.com/44282/soda-sales-drop/ http://time.com/44282/soda-sales-drop/
- warfangle 12y agoIf you follow it through, even though sales have dropped 3% year over year, 8.9 billion cases were sold. Each case is 192 liquid ounces. Divided by 365, divided by 316.1 million, that's still 14.8 liquid ounces per person per day - on average, about 0.8 gallons of soda per person per week. I wasn't too far off ;)
- legohead 12y agoDoes anyone drink milk daily? I once tried switching to chocolate milk to get rid of my addiction to Pepsi. It was going great, until about a week later, where I was having BM problems.. constipation. Then I remembered my schooling, and figured out that the milk was causing it. Today, I have accepted my addiction and just drink Pepsi :)
- withdavidli 12y agoCoca Cola FTW!!! As for milk... could always tolerate it cold, but not heated (mom microwaves it). Looks like more than half the human population is lactose intolerant: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=percentage%20of%20people%20lactose%20intolerant https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e... Milk commercials are so over the top, in bay area radio commercials depict it for people growing up into super heroes (I kid you not).
- vidarh 12y agoAbout a litre or so daily, sometimes more. Then again levels of lactose tolerance in southern parts of Scandinavia here I'm from is amongst the highest in the world. I didn't really realise lactose intolerance was a thing until I was in mid 20's and moved to the UK.
- Dewie 12y ago> I didn't really realise lactose intolerance was a thing until I was in mid 20's and moved to the UK. Many probably don't realize it until they "acquire" it themselves. Or maybe they just start feeling bloated after drinking a lot of milk or eating ice cream, and don't really consider that it might be a mild intolerance.
- vidarh 12y agoIt's not so much that in my case at least. In Norway, the general assumption used to be very much that you will not be lactose intolerant, and will not "acquire" it, because lactose intolerance of any degree is extremely rare in the "native" population. As far as I know, about 4% or so of the population in Scandinavia is lactose intolerant now, after increased immigration from parts of the world with more widespread lactose intolerance have increased the percentage substantially. It was simply not on our radar until perhaps the mid 90's.
- spodek 12y agoWhy would anyone think drinking the milk of another animal, evolved to grow calves, not people? The article's second-to-last paragraph tells you everything. We believe in milk because it's profitable for diary producers to promote it, which they do. > Politics are certainly at play here [...] the vast majority of Dairy Management’s funding for its marketing strategies comes from the producers themselves. The U.S.D.A.'s role in promoting dairy was firmly established in the 1983 Dairy Production and Stabilization Act, which made it the business of the government to carry out a “coordinated program of promotion designed to strengthen the dairy industry’s position in the marketplace and to maintain and expand domestic and foreign markets and uses for fluid milk and dairy products.”
- revelation 12y agoBecause it turns out God didn't handcraft every single one of us and there is considerable overlap between the needs of calves and that of humans. So maybe "milk is good for you" is another marketing ploy like the KFC christmas in Japan or Coca-Cola. I'm pretty sure sugary drinks are still worse in comparison, though.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- scott_s 12y agoBecause it is a convenient food source, for those that can digest it. Being able to digest lactose is more common in people whose ancestors domesticated cows. Human evolution has not stopped; the ability for some people to digest lactose into adulthood is a recent adaptation, which happened after we domesticated cows and had a convenient food source available, aside from their meat. A cow's liver also serves a very specific evolutionary purpose for the cow, but I've never seen anyone say, "Why would anyone think of eating a cow's liver, evolved to detoxify the cow, not feed people?"
- svalorzen 12y agoWell, I'm pretty sure nothing I eat specifically evolved to be eaten by me. Guess what, I eat anyway.
- scott_s 12y agoWhat I take away from this is that milk does not provide any particular benefits over other food. Which does not mean there's necessarily anything wrong with it. Personally, I was a long-time vegetarian, and am now a pescetarian. I am also a very active person, training in power lifting and Brazilian jiu jitsu several times a week. I drink whole milk daily because it is calorie and protein dense, not because I think it has some magical properties.
- latch 12y agoWhich does not mean there's necessarily anything wrong with it. If it's nutritionally mundane, we should base our decision on other factors: environmental impact, sustainability and animal cruelty. In Australia, 400K-700 calves (< 30 days old) are sent to the slaughterhouse every year in order to sustain its milk industry.
- scott_s 12y agoI don't think it is actually nutritionally neutral, as it is calorie and protein dense. Hence, why I drink it. But I don't ascribe any magical properties to it. I do agree with your overall point, as ethical reasons where why I was a vegetarian for ten years. But going vegan was, personally, a bridge too far. My quality of life was impacted too much by removing eggs and dairy as they were my main sources of protein - and still are.
- latch 12y agoDepending on where I'm living, I've struggled with this too. It's difficult in some cities/countries/cultures. I've found that, in most places, it's normally possible to find eggs produced by free-range chickens (ironically, typically at the extreme of fancy super markets or really poor ones). Milk I've been off for a long time, though I confess to enjoying a pizza once every couple months or so. I can normally avoid it though. Soy/tofu/tempeh, oats, nuts, legumes and quinoa are my major sources (quinoa can be hard to find though). I imagine soy-products might be less popular in Brazil?
- ahh 12y ago
- guyzero 12y agoThe conclusion is sort of weak - that milk isn't strictly necessary and doesn't do much good for you because most Americans aren't vitamin- or calorie- deficient. That logic could be applied to literally anything. Is beef good for you? Most Americans aren't protein deficient and beef has a lot of saturated fat in it. Is chicken good for you? Most Americans aren't protein deficient. Are carrots good for you? Most Americans aren't Vitamin A-deficient. etc. Milk is fine. Not everyone can tolerate it. You don't need to drink a gallon a day to stay alive. But it's a perfectly fine part of a normal diet. And for kids who are sometimes fussy eaters, yeah, milk can actually make the difference between getting enough calories or not.
- imanaccount247 12y agoThe difference is what happens if you take them away. Most Americans aren't vitamin A deficient because of carrots. If you removed carrots, you would end up with a huge explosion of vitamin A deficiency. If you removed milk, nothing would happen. And the notion that meat is simply protein is not accurate. Meat is a primary source of a few vitamins and minerals for many people (b12, zinc, iron, etc). The protein is not what makes it good, pretty much anything that a reasonable person would classify as "real food" contains plenty enough protein.
- guyzero 12y agoVitamin D is added to milk because before they did that there were a lot of people with Vitamin D deficiency. The same thing is true of iodine in salt. Most people can remove any one or two things from their diet and they won't suddenly get scurvy or pellagra.
- imanaccount247 12y agoThat shows that vitamin D supplements are useful, not that milk is. Vitamin D can be added to anything (it is already in lots of orange juice for example). Coke with vitamin D in it isn't suddenly "a healthy part of a complete breakfast!". If most people removed carrots or beef from their diet without replacing it with some other source of the vitamins those provide, they would become deficient. If most people removed milk from their diet, nothing would happen. That's the point.
- therealdrag0 12y agoHealthcare Triage has a video on milk being not particularly healthy or even beneficial in ways people think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyFZcuHmeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzyFZcuHmeI
- OrwellianChild 12y agoAnd, in case this isn't clear to everyone, Aaron Carroll is the author of both the NYT article and the man in front of the camera at Healthcare Triage. I think that Healthcare Triage does a pretty excellent job of presenting information. Just don't want anyone to consider them separate sources, as it's the same guy. :)
- therealdrag0 12y agoHaha. Oops. I didn't notice that. I wouldn't have posted this if I had. Thanks for pointing that out.
- OrwellianChild 12y agoAnything that gives Heathcare Triage exposure is worth it in my book. It's great stuff, regardless of Dr. Carroll's personal vendetta against milk. :)
- leeber 12y agoThis is not really "news" at all. I stopped drinking dairy milk a couple years ago because I realized it offered no potential benefits, and only alleged risks that kept surfacing in these studies. There is literally no up-side to drinking milk, only purported risks. Thus, IMO the only reason to drink it is if you REALLY REALLY REALLY like the taste and can't imagine your life without it. Also, interestingly - I personally have seen absolutely zero studies that showed milk benefits, that was not funded by the dairy farmers.
- guyzero 12y agoOf course there's an upside to drinking milk - it has calories and nutrients. Is it a better source of those two things than anything else? No. But there is no "perfect" food - you need a little bit of everything.
- heurist 12y agoIt's great for gaining weight (which is something a lot of people want to do).
- nly 12y ago> But there’s very little evidence that most adults need it. There’s also very little evidence that it’s doing them much good. Isn't all foodstuff this way? I watched a BBC documentary a number of years ago about a woman who had reportedly lived entirely on crisps (potato chips) for years[0]. She wasn't entirely healthy by any means, but it speaks to the resilience of our biology when you can get by on basically anything provided you get enough calories and a few vitamins. Once you get past a bit of common sense, the whole notion of "healthy food" and "unhealthy food" often looks pretty ridiculous. It's really not worth time debating the negligible pros and cons of one particular food item. Disclaimer: I've been drinking a pint of semi-skimmed every night since I was a child... which according to Wolfram Alpha is almost a quarter of the volume of a Gray Whale [0] http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/feb/12/eaten-only-crisps-for-ten-years http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/feb/12/eaten-on...
- delecti 12y agoIncidentally, she probably only survived because potatoes are very nearly nutritionally complete. I've read that you can survive indefinitely on a diet of potatoes and milk. I don't remember a specific source, but a quick google search seems to back that up.
- CompelTechnic 12y ago>In addition, milk is not a low-calorie beverage. Even if people drink nonfat milk, three cups a day can mean an additional 250 calories consumed. Low-fat or whole milk has even more calories. In an era when every other caloric beverage is being marginalized because of obesity concerns, it’s odd that milk continues to get a pass. I'm kind of upset that this is an argument here. It's as if the author thinks that because you drink a beverage instead of eat it, it can't make you any less hungry, and therefore you keep on eating and drinking and get fat. If anything, when I drink a glass of milk I feel more satiated (less hungry) than I would for a lot of foods. Beverages can definitely make you feel full. In addition, I've seen a good amount of evidence that protein (in milk or other foods) produces more satiation per unit calorie than carbs or fat. I'm too lazy to cite my sources right now, but a google search shows some merit to the idea that milk helps you lose weight.
- vidarh 12y agoThere's a very clear correlation for me between my protein intake and how well I do at the gym (power lifting), and I hate it. Getting optimal levels of protein for me, which seems to be around the 200g/day level, is hard. Towards dinner time I hate the sight of food...
- tiglionabbit 12y agoHave you tried eating more fat? I've heard that, by gram, muscles are made mostly of fat, then carbs, and then a little bit of protein.
- imanaccount247 12y agoBy weight, muscle is mostly water.
- vidarh 12y agoEating more fat makes meeting the protein goals even harder because fat also sate you. You need some fat - too little is dangerous - and I don't really bother care about my fat intake other than making sure it's comfortably into safe levels (getting too little is actually a concern for me when trying to maximize protein, but it's not hard) As for weight of muscles, the dry weight of muscle of someone who is fat will probably consist of more fat than protein, but muscle synthesis is driven by amino acids (the constituent parts of proteins), and the muscle fibres which is what gives you your strength is pretty much all protein. Everyone will store some fat in cells in/around their muscles, but getting more fat in your diet has very limited effect on your ability to synthesise muscle. You may appear to get bigger muscles due to added fat, but you won't get stronger (and you'll lose definition, which is more of a body builder concern). Basically you need amino acids, and while the body can synthesise a good chunk of the needed amino acids from other food-stuffs, if you want to add muscle there's nothing that's as efficient as getting protein, optionally supplemented with some amino acids (getting the optimal proportion of the "big three" amino acids for adding muscle - leucine, valine and isoleucine - from food sources is hard; once you get to advanced levels of lifting, you may be able eek out some tiny added benefits from branched-chain amino acid supplements that contain just those).
- jack-r-abbit 12y agoI don't really drink milk very often. I rarely ever just have a glass of it. I have a bowl of cereal like 2-3 times a month (but really only because it is there for the kids). I don't think I would miss it in liquid form if it was suddenly unavailable. However, it is in a lot of things I eat: cheese, yogurt, sour cream, chocolate, pan cakes, etc. So on one hand, it is a little strange that humans are the only animal to drink the milk of another animal and to drink milk of any kind past infancy. But on the other hand, products made out of milk seem as natural and appropriate as products made out of hamburger.
- carsongross 12y agoThis certainly does not apply to everyone, but if you are trying to get strong, Mark Rippetoe recommends a gallon of milk a day, which lead to this hilarious exchange: Rip: You need to drink one gallon of full fat milk everyday. It's almost mandatory. Audience Member: I'm lactose intolerant, could I substitute yogurt for milk? Rip: Gallon of yogurt.