5 ms·

Mosaics Revealed at Ancient Greek City of Zeugma in Turkey

49 points by diodorus 12y ago

return0 12y ago
This city is apparently now underwater, but is full of wonderful mosaics. This is an interesting documentary about the restoration of mosaics during 2000-2004: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUJ7PHCNOVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUJ7PHCNOVs
- bonjurkes 12y ago
  Turkish government has huge success for destroying historical remainings. They just send all Zeugma remainings under water because they wanted to build a barrage right there!
  - kamilafsar 12y ago
    > Turkish government has huge success for destroying historical remainings. That would be weird since Turkey has huge interests in those "historical remainings": tourism is one of the biggest sources of income.
stinos 12y ago
Marvellous. This excerpt from the article really says what I initially thought when seeing the pictures: What is really striking about this mosaic is the wonderful and vivid colors used as well as the beauty of the heroes’ faces
- pilsetnieks 12y ago
  That was my first thought as well - in comparison, medieval art looks like child's scribbles.
  - fsloth 12y ago
    Yeah, my thoughts exactly. But is the obvious discrepancy in accepted quality of public art linked to regions or the time period? Or just the platform for the art? I.e. some illustration in a book that is copied by a novice in some monastery probably has a lower minimum standard than something like a public mosaic in a large house. For example, this mosaic in Hagia Sophia dates from 1261 and is pretty nice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deesis_mosaic_Hagia_Sophia.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deesis_mosaic_Hagia_Sophia... Anyway, after reading of the state of roman and greek civilazations in the antique period and observing art like in the linked article I get often the feeling that the medieval period in europe really was quite dark to the point were it skews our perception of the achievements of prior ages. Against this background renaissance does not seem like an amazing birth of human achievement but actually the period where the european civilization just got it's shit together once again.
  - moron4hire 12y ago
    Well, yes, but understand that most of the surviving medieval European pieces of art are icons and other religious works, which put a number of requirements on the artist that dictated a less-than-precise portrayal. It was not a general lack of talent or technical understanding. Politically more important figures had to be drawn larger than everyone else, with their heads placed higher, regardless of their more realistic height and position in the scene. Being often used as sort of religious picture books, the depth dimension is present, but often used to depict passage of time, not distance from the viewer. And for a period of time, it was considered sinful to try to "compete with God" by making things look more realistic. And like modern software projects, the artists had to work with the employees they could find and train on their own. It does no good to design a perfectly rendered scene when the only employees you have on hand to do the grunt and fill work are recent college undergrads who have only touched PHP or Java.
    - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      >it was considered sinful to try to "compete with God" by making things look more realistic // I'd love a citation that confirmed that? Sounds very like the "of course everyone thought the world was flat" unfounded claims that people make.
- acdha 12y ago
  I had the same reaction on a recent trip to Rome – the Capitolone Museum had some beautiful mosaic works framed like paintings. It takes a second for you to realize that these are in fact mosaics using the smallest tiles you've ever seen: http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/palazzo_nuovo/sala_delle_colombe/mosaico_con_maschere_sceniche http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/p... http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/palazzo_nuovo/sala_delle_colombe/mosaico_delle_colombe http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/p... (On a related note, I was also impressed by the surprisingly effective use of the natural marble texture & color to mimic cloth on a few pieces I couldn't find in their gallery: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rmtujr3p1cpnjws/2014-11-01%2017.07.06%20HDR.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rmtujr3p1cpnjws/2014-11-01%2017.07...) Highly recommended if you find yourself in the area, although it'll certainly leave you wondering how much more was lost forever…
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    What surprises me in, for example, the image of the doves drinking from that bowl is how well observed the animals appear compared to the straight lines of the edge of the slab which look like something I would draw. It's like a primary school child roughed out the straight lines and then a master artist filled in the rest. Does it speak to the ability for the mind to overrule what one clearly sees - it's almost like some sort of platonic perfectionism. This sort of [trompe l'oeil] mosaic work seems to me now to foreshadow impressionism: an idea I find quite interesting.
- drcomputer 12y ago
  That's the ability to intelligently critique and analyze art right there. You don't see that often!
Luc 12y ago
The (blogspam?) article slyly omits mentioning a date, but I think these are mosaics recovered more than 10 years ago, and currently on display at the Zeugma Mosaic Museum.
- acdha 12y ago
  Clearly they've been around for awhile – the Zeugma Mosaic Museum opened in 2011 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma_Mosaic_Museum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma_Mosaic_Museum – but it looks like there were some recent releases: http://www.archaeology.org/news/2682-141104-turkey-zeugma-new-mosaics http://www.archaeology.org/news/2682-141104-turkey-zeugma-ne... and the pictures appear similar to the ones in this article covering social media complaints about the mayor & other dignitaries walking on the mosaics: http://www.todayszaman.com/national_mayor-of-gaziantep-walks-on-ancient-zeugma-mosaics-in-high-heels_363420.html http://www.todayszaman.com/national_mayor-of-gaziantep-walks... This older 2012 article is worth a look if you want to know more of the history of the site: http://www.archaeology.org/issues/44-1211/features/252-features-zeugma-after-the-flood http://www.archaeology.org/issues/44-1211/features/252-featu...

49 points by diodorus 12y ago

This city is apparently now underwater, but is full of wonderful mosaics. This is an interesting documentary about the restoration of mosaics during 2000-2004: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUJ7PHCNOVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUJ7PHCNOVs

bonjurkes 12y ago
Turkish government has huge success for destroying historical remainings. They just send all Zeugma remainings under water because they wanted to build a barrage right there!
- kamilafsar 12y ago
  > Turkish government has huge success for destroying historical remainings. That would be weird since Turkey has huge interests in those "historical remainings": tourism is one of the biggest sources of income.

stinos 12y ago

Marvellous. This excerpt from the article really says what I initially thought when seeing the pictures: What is really striking about this mosaic is the wonderful and vivid colors used as well as the beauty of the heroes’ faces

pilsetnieks 12y ago
That was my first thought as well - in comparison, medieval art looks like child's scribbles.
- fsloth 12y ago
  Yeah, my thoughts exactly. But is the obvious discrepancy in accepted quality of public art linked to regions or the time period? Or just the platform for the art? I.e. some illustration in a book that is copied by a novice in some monastery probably has a lower minimum standard than something like a public mosaic in a large house. For example, this mosaic in Hagia Sophia dates from 1261 and is pretty nice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deesis_mosaic_Hagia_Sophia.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Deesis_mosaic_Hagia_Sophia... Anyway, after reading of the state of roman and greek civilazations in the antique period and observing art like in the linked article I get often the feeling that the medieval period in europe really was quite dark to the point were it skews our perception of the achievements of prior ages. Against this background renaissance does not seem like an amazing birth of human achievement but actually the period where the european civilization just got it's shit together once again.
- moron4hire 12y ago
  Well, yes, but understand that most of the surviving medieval European pieces of art are icons and other religious works, which put a number of requirements on the artist that dictated a less-than-precise portrayal. It was not a general lack of talent or technical understanding. Politically more important figures had to be drawn larger than everyone else, with their heads placed higher, regardless of their more realistic height and position in the scene. Being often used as sort of religious picture books, the depth dimension is present, but often used to depict passage of time, not distance from the viewer. And for a period of time, it was considered sinful to try to "compete with God" by making things look more realistic. And like modern software projects, the artists had to work with the employees they could find and train on their own. It does no good to design a perfectly rendered scene when the only employees you have on hand to do the grunt and fill work are recent college undergrads who have only touched PHP or Java.
  - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
    >it was considered sinful to try to "compete with God" by making things look more realistic // I'd love a citation that confirmed that? Sounds very like the "of course everyone thought the world was flat" unfounded claims that people make.
acdha 12y ago
I had the same reaction on a recent trip to Rome – the Capitolone Museum had some beautiful mosaic works framed like paintings. It takes a second for you to realize that these are in fact mosaics using the smallest tiles you've ever seen: http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/palazzo_nuovo/sala_delle_colombe/mosaico_con_maschere_sceniche http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/p... http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/palazzo_nuovo/sala_delle_colombe/mosaico_delle_colombe http://en.museicapitolini.org/collezioni/percorsi_per_sale/p... (On a related note, I was also impressed by the surprisingly effective use of the natural marble texture & color to mimic cloth on a few pieces I couldn't find in their gallery: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rmtujr3p1cpnjws/2014-11-01%2017.07.06%20HDR.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rmtujr3p1cpnjws/2014-11-01%2017.07...) Highly recommended if you find yourself in the area, although it'll certainly leave you wondering how much more was lost forever…
- pbhjpbhj 12y ago
  What surprises me in, for example, the image of the doves drinking from that bowl is how well observed the animals appear compared to the straight lines of the edge of the slab which look like something I would draw. It's like a primary school child roughed out the straight lines and then a master artist filled in the rest. Does it speak to the ability for the mind to overrule what one clearly sees - it's almost like some sort of platonic perfectionism. This sort of [trompe l'oeil] mosaic work seems to me now to foreshadow impressionism: an idea I find quite interesting.
drcomputer 12y ago
That's the ability to intelligently critique and analyze art right there. You don't see that often!

Luc 12y ago

The (blogspam?) article slyly omits mentioning a date, but I think these are mosaics recovered more than 10 years ago, and currently on display at the Zeugma Mosaic Museum.

acdha 12y ago
Clearly they've been around for awhile – the Zeugma Mosaic Museum opened in 2011 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma_Mosaic_Museum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeugma_Mosaic_Museum – but it looks like there were some recent releases: http://www.archaeology.org/news/2682-141104-turkey-zeugma-new-mosaics http://www.archaeology.org/news/2682-141104-turkey-zeugma-ne... and the pictures appear similar to the ones in this article covering social media complaints about the mayor & other dignitaries walking on the mosaics: http://www.todayszaman.com/national_mayor-of-gaziantep-walks-on-ancient-zeugma-mosaics-in-high-heels_363420.html http://www.todayszaman.com/national_mayor-of-gaziantep-walks... This older 2012 article is worth a look if you want to know more of the history of the site: http://www.archaeology.org/issues/44-1211/features/252-features-zeugma-after-the-flood http://www.archaeology.org/issues/44-1211/features/252-featu...