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Large scale immigration is just passing the buck down onto a currently-poorer country. But poor countries aren't going to stay human-meat factories forever, an

Large scale immigration is just passing the buck down onto a currently-poorer country. But poor countries aren't going to stay human-meat factories forever, and sooner rather than later someone is going to have to figure out a way to maintain an industrialized society with a stable population.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
The end of consumerism, less income inequality, and automation. I must just not understand. It seems pretty simple.
- mc32 12y ago
  Right, but point me to a society that's been able to make that work. The formula has yet to be cracked.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Show me a society/country who has actually made a go at making it work in the last 40 years. If you're not attempting to execute theory in the real world, you're not trying hard enough.
    - mc32 12y ago
      I'm not sure I'd agree with you. It's not the kind of thing you try in order to see if it sticks. Communism tried with two out of your three criteria and it didn't turn out all that well --mostly ended up a terrible 'experiment' for those whom it affected. So, I don't think 'trying' is the way to go, when otherwise what you have is working well enough. That said, Japan has to try something --they are entering 25 years of being in a standstill, so relatively speaking, they are in decline. They (politicians and population, by large) may not have the will to try anything radically different from the status quo --which is a quasi neo-liberal economic model, so they may just end up crashing hard or slowly becoming kind of irrelevant, economically speaking.
MarkMc 12y ago
I imagine that currently-poor countries would love to have the buck passed down to them if it improves their standard of living.
visarga 12y ago
> Large scale immigration is just passing the buck down onto a currently-poorer country This can also create a return of experience, business investments and money from the rich country to the poor one. Some poor countries are so backwards that what they need most is not more people, but people who have seen a better way of doing things and can apply at home.

toomuchtodo 12y ago

The end of consumerism, less income inequality, and automation. I must just not understand. It seems pretty simple.

mc32 12y ago
Right, but point me to a society that's been able to make that work. The formula has yet to be cracked.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  Show me a society/country who has actually made a go at making it work in the last 40 years. If you're not attempting to execute theory in the real world, you're not trying hard enough.
  - mc32 12y ago
    I'm not sure I'd agree with you. It's not the kind of thing you try in order to see if it sticks. Communism tried with two out of your three criteria and it didn't turn out all that well --mostly ended up a terrible 'experiment' for those whom it affected. So, I don't think 'trying' is the way to go, when otherwise what you have is working well enough. That said, Japan has to try something --they are entering 25 years of being in a standstill, so relatively speaking, they are in decline. They (politicians and population, by large) may not have the will to try anything radically different from the status quo --which is a quasi neo-liberal economic model, so they may just end up crashing hard or slowly becoming kind of irrelevant, economically speaking.

MarkMc 12y ago

I imagine that currently-poor countries would love to have the buck passed down to them if it improves their standard of living.

visarga 12y ago

> Large scale immigration is just passing the buck down onto a currently-poorer country This can also create a return of experience, business investments and money from the rich country to the poor one. Some poor countries are so backwards that what they need most is not more people, but people who have seen a better way of doing things and can apply at home.