5 ms·

Japan's levitating maglev train reaches 500km/h

92 points by mwc 12y ago

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - melling 12y ago
    Well, to be honest maglevs aren't common because they are expensive to build. The technology really isn't new. The maglev to the Shanghai airport is already 10 years old. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train It goes 268mph(431km/h). China seems to be building low-speed maglev trains too. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR 110 km/h (68 mph) These types of maglevs would be great in or near cities. You could travel the length of Manhattan to get to JFK in 15 minutes. I think there's a low-speed maglev almost ready for use in South Korea. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Incheon_Airport_maglev http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Incheon_Airport_maglev
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      The Shanghai maglev is quite useless since you have to take a slow subway to catch it. Better/faster to just grab a cab and go direct for just 2x more.
      - melling 12y ago
        You should have explained the politics that crippled it. There were lots of protests and the maglev couldn't be built farther into the city. http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/12/us-china-maglev-protest-idUSPEK32757920080112 http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/12/us-china-maglev-pr...
        seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        No idea what you are referring to, Reuters is blocked in china. The radiation thing is probably just face cover, it is just too expensive to build into the city.
      - tsotha 12y ago
        It was supposed to run all the way to Beijing as originally envisioned. Too expensive, though.
      - rahimnathwani 12y ago
        It depends where you live. A taxi from my apartment to the airport is about 145RMB and takes about 45 minutes. Subway plus maglev takes 60 minutes, and costs less than 50RMB (maglev is 40RMB if you have a subway card).
        seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        Line 2 goes all the way to the airport now. The connection is easier also. If you are worried about money....
        rahimnathwani 12y ago
        True. I'm happy to pay 40 RMB to avoid standing up for half an hour (and getting home half an hour earlier), but not the extra 100 RMB on top to save another 15 minutes (and contribute to global warming) :)
    - userbinator 12y ago
      According to your link the maglev at Shanghai also achieved 500km/h on a test run... I think what's more interesting is that the Chinese have achieved 302mph (only ~9mph less than the maglev) with wheeled trains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRH380A#Test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRH380A#Test
      - eCa 12y ago
        The french has the conventional rail record with ~574kph (357 mph) [1]. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record
        MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
        You should mention that the train was junk after that, and the rail track too. Very expensive marketing.
    - jpatokal 12y ago
      Japan's had a low-speed maglev running since 2005: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo Although to be honest I've never quite understood the point of a low-speed maglev, all the expense and drawbacks of fiddly new technology (Linimo can't operate if it's too windy...) without any of primary benefit (blazing speed!).
  - lightblade 12y ago
    Perhaps I should add that the maglev train I've ride at Shanghai was already that fast, and it was in commercial operation since 2004. That was 10 years ago. So no, I don't see how this is news.
    - melling 12y ago
      No, you didn't go that fast. It's 50mph slower. Japan is going into production with this train in 10 years. I wouldn't simply right off this as not being progress. Most passenger trains in America probably don't even average 50mph. It would turn Boston to NYC, or NYC to DC into a 45 minute commute.
      - lightblade 12y ago
        > ..production with this train in 10 years Another 10 years? That means it goes into operation in 2024? That's 20 years after the Chinese built one.
        melling 12y ago
        Yes, I'm not sure where you're going with that. Japan already has a bullet train. Here's what Wikipedia has: "JR Central aims to begin commercial maglev service between Tokyo and Nagoya in the year 2025 with the full track between Tokyo and Osaka finalized in 2045." http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Japan http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Japan
        lightblade 12y ago
        Ugh! With all these down voting, it makes it hard for low karma people to voice opinion. I'll just shut up >:(
        ChuckMcM 12y ago
        I think it is just a language problem. I presume you are talking about this train: http://www.smtdc.com/en/gycf3.html http://www.smtdc.com/en/gycf3.html which is, according to the web site, still just running on a test track with a max speed of 430 km/H, which is a little bit more than 43mph slower than the Japanese demonstration. It looks like the maiden voyage of that test train was 2002 and it is still not a "production" train, no doubt owing to the challenges of putting a maglev train into production. But the article wasn't about "maglev trains" in general, it was about a specific one. And so the comparison is moot except to compare how each system has approached the challenges of building and/or productizing such fast trains. When I read your comments I felt like it was a Chinese boast/Japanese putdown not an actual comment. As I understand it there is some animosity between Japan and China, and with that understanding it felt to me that your comments were simply being mean rather than adding to the conversation. So given that you have first hand experience with the Shanghai train, do you have any insight into what has kept it from being deployed into a production capacity? Articles like this one in Time (http://content.time.com/time/travel/cityguide/article/0,31489,1851908_1851830_1851792,00.html http://content.time.com/time/travel/cityguide/article/0,3148...) portray it as a sort of entertainment ride, like a roller coaster might be in an amusement park.
ChuckMcM 12y ago
On their 27 mile test track. Which is too bad since at 300mph that would be a 4 minute ride :-) I expect it spends all of its time accelerating and decelerating. I suspect such trains will only be practical in the 'real' world by having them in some sort of fully enclosed track. It doesn't have to be a solid tunnel but something that keeps out birds and other debris from the area. Nothing like hitting a pigeon or catching a flying bit of branch at 300MPH, hurricanes put 2 x 4s through houses 2/3rds that speed so that would be a challenge. That said the only other remarkable thing was how shaky the video was at 500km/h if the train was really moving around that much it wouldn't be too sustainable. One of the amazing things for me on the TGV was how smoothly it rode even going 200km/h.
- melling 12y ago
  You mean 200mph(320km/h)? 200km/h probably isn't offically a high-speed train. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV
  - ChuckMcM 12y ago
    Yes, total metric fail. Sigh.
- WildUtah 12y ago
  I think the proposal is to tunnel under the Japan Alps from the outskirts of the Kanto (where Tokyo is) to the outskirts of the Kansai and Osaka. The tunnel is mostly required because Japan's mountainous geography is not friendly to straight corridors, but it means fewer birds and sticks will be a benefit.
- Anechoic 12y ago
  Nothing like hitting a pigeon or catching a flying bit of branch at 300MPH, hurricanes put 2 x 4s through houses 2/3rds that speed so that would be a challenge. At 250 mph, the TransRapid TR-08 simply vaporized any biological object it hame across little-to-no-damage to the vehicle (but there was a mess to clean up). A large object can be an issue, but small objects will likely be pushed aside by the pressure wave ahead of the vehicle. That said the only other remarkable thing was how shaky the video was at 500km/h The vehicle is still undergoing testing, the facility may not have figured out or implemented the ride-quality algorithms yet.
mkonecny 12y ago
How do the engineers account for earthquakes on these trains? I could see it being quite disastrous if one were to occur while this train travelling at 500km/h. Also I wonder what the efficiency is given that the train needs to push through the thick atmosphere at 0 altitude compared to airplanes which fly at their top speed in a very sparse atmosphere.
- bostonvaulter2 12y ago
  When the large japanese quake occurred I remember reading an article about how the Japanese Shinkansen have an automated system that will put on the brakes in the case of an earthquake. Within 2 or 5 seconds if I remember correctly.
- ojiikun 12y ago
  A network of seismometers to detect foreshocks all over the islands and a system to send an automated stop signal to trains. It worked in 2011 when all the high speed trains were successfully stopped ~10 seconds before the 9.0 mag quake hit: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/06/16/national/shinkansen-quake-survivability-key-selling-point/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/06/16/national/shinkan...
- jpatokal 12y ago
  Thanks to the Shinkansen, Japan's had plenty of practice with this. Their "UrEDAS" (theoretically "Urgent Earthquake Detection and Alarm System", although this is just a backronym for yuredasu "starts to shake") monitors both P and S waves and brings trains to a halt automatically, and is considered the gold standard for this kind of thing. In the 50 years they've been running trains, there's been one (1) derailment due to an earthquake, with zero fatalities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen#Earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen#Earthquake http://sdr.co.jp/papers/13wcee_uredas.pdf http://sdr.co.jp/papers/13wcee_uredas.pdf
bsaul 12y ago
Tgv beat that speed many years ago, on rails : http://youtu.be/8skXT5NQzCg http://youtu.be/8skXT5NQzCg
- dllu 12y ago
  Maglev also beat that speed many years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_rail_vehicles#Maglev_trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_rail_veh... In 2003 the Japanese maglev test train running on the same test track reached 581 km/h. It was not until 2007 that the TGV reached 574 km/h.
- VeejayRampay 12y ago
  Better yet, IIRC TGV achieved 380km/h 35 years ago.
kyleblarson 12y ago
I am sitting on the Sakura Shinkansen headed towards Shin Osaka as I read this.

92 points by mwc 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- melling 12y ago
  Well, to be honest maglevs aren't common because they are expensive to build. The technology really isn't new. The maglev to the Shanghai airport is already 10 years old. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train It goes 268mph(431km/h). China seems to be building low-speed maglev trains too. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_S1,_BCR 110 km/h (68 mph) These types of maglevs would be great in or near cities. You could travel the length of Manhattan to get to JFK in 15 minutes. I think there's a low-speed maglev almost ready for use in South Korea. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Incheon_Airport_maglev http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Incheon_Airport_maglev
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    The Shanghai maglev is quite useless since you have to take a slow subway to catch it. Better/faster to just grab a cab and go direct for just 2x more.
    - melling 12y ago
      You should have explained the politics that crippled it. There were lots of protests and the maglev couldn't be built farther into the city. http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/12/us-china-maglev-protest-idUSPEK32757920080112 http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/01/12/us-china-maglev-pr...
      - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        No idea what you are referring to, Reuters is blocked in china. The radiation thing is probably just face cover, it is just too expensive to build into the city.
    - tsotha 12y ago
      It was supposed to run all the way to Beijing as originally envisioned. Too expensive, though.
    - rahimnathwani 12y ago
      It depends where you live. A taxi from my apartment to the airport is about 145RMB and takes about 45 minutes. Subway plus maglev takes 60 minutes, and costs less than 50RMB (maglev is 40RMB if you have a subway card).
      - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        Line 2 goes all the way to the airport now. The connection is easier also. If you are worried about money....
        rahimnathwani 12y ago
        True. I'm happy to pay 40 RMB to avoid standing up for half an hour (and getting home half an hour earlier), but not the extra 100 RMB on top to save another 15 minutes (and contribute to global warming) :)
  - userbinator 12y ago
    According to your link the maglev at Shanghai also achieved 500km/h on a test run... I think what's more interesting is that the Chinese have achieved 302mph (only ~9mph less than the maglev) with wheeled trains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRH380A#Test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRH380A#Test
    - eCa 12y ago
      The french has the conventional rail record with ~574kph (357 mph) [1]. [1] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV_world_speed_record
      - MrBuddyCasino 12y ago
        You should mention that the train was junk after that, and the rail track too. Very expensive marketing.
  - jpatokal 12y ago
    Japan's had a low-speed maglev running since 2005: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo Although to be honest I've never quite understood the point of a low-speed maglev, all the expense and drawbacks of fiddly new technology (Linimo can't operate if it's too windy...) without any of primary benefit (blazing speed!).
- lightblade 12y ago
  Perhaps I should add that the maglev train I've ride at Shanghai was already that fast, and it was in commercial operation since 2004. That was 10 years ago. So no, I don't see how this is news.
  - melling 12y ago
    No, you didn't go that fast. It's 50mph slower. Japan is going into production with this train in 10 years. I wouldn't simply right off this as not being progress. Most passenger trains in America probably don't even average 50mph. It would turn Boston to NYC, or NYC to DC into a 45 minute commute.
    - lightblade 12y ago
      > ..production with this train in 10 years Another 10 years? That means it goes into operation in 2024? That's 20 years after the Chinese built one.
      - melling 12y ago
        Yes, I'm not sure where you're going with that. Japan already has a bullet train. Here's what Wikipedia has: "JR Central aims to begin commercial maglev service between Tokyo and Nagoya in the year 2025 with the full track between Tokyo and Osaka finalized in 2045." http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Japan http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Japan
        lightblade 12y ago
        Ugh! With all these down voting, it makes it hard for low karma people to voice opinion. I'll just shut up >:(
        ChuckMcM 12y ago
        I think it is just a language problem. I presume you are talking about this train: http://www.smtdc.com/en/gycf3.html http://www.smtdc.com/en/gycf3.html which is, according to the web site, still just running on a test track with a max speed of 430 km/H, which is a little bit more than 43mph slower than the Japanese demonstration. It looks like the maiden voyage of that test train was 2002 and it is still not a "production" train, no doubt owing to the challenges of putting a maglev train into production. But the article wasn't about "maglev trains" in general, it was about a specific one. And so the comparison is moot except to compare how each system has approached the challenges of building and/or productizing such fast trains. When I read your comments I felt like it was a Chinese boast/Japanese putdown not an actual comment. As I understand it there is some animosity between Japan and China, and with that understanding it felt to me that your comments were simply being mean rather than adding to the conversation. So given that you have first hand experience with the Shanghai train, do you have any insight into what has kept it from being deployed into a production capacity? Articles like this one in Time (http://content.time.com/time/travel/cityguide/article/0,31489,1851908_1851830_1851792,00.html http://content.time.com/time/travel/cityguide/article/0,3148...) portray it as a sort of entertainment ride, like a roller coaster might be in an amusement park.

ChuckMcM 12y ago

On their 27 mile test track. Which is too bad since at 300mph that would be a 4 minute ride :-) I expect it spends all of its time accelerating and decelerating. I suspect such trains will only be practical in the 'real' world by having them in some sort of fully enclosed track. It doesn't have to be a solid tunnel but something that keeps out birds and other debris from the area. Nothing like hitting a pigeon or catching a flying bit of branch at 300MPH, hurricanes put 2 x 4s through houses 2/3rds that speed so that would be a challenge. That said the only other remarkable thing was how shaky the video was at 500km/h if the train was really moving around that much it wouldn't be too sustainable. One of the amazing things for me on the TGV was how smoothly it rode even going 200km/h.

melling 12y ago
You mean 200mph(320km/h)? 200km/h probably isn't offically a high-speed train. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV
- ChuckMcM 12y ago
  Yes, total metric fail. Sigh.
WildUtah 12y ago
I think the proposal is to tunnel under the Japan Alps from the outskirts of the Kanto (where Tokyo is) to the outskirts of the Kansai and Osaka. The tunnel is mostly required because Japan's mountainous geography is not friendly to straight corridors, but it means fewer birds and sticks will be a benefit.
Anechoic 12y ago
Nothing like hitting a pigeon or catching a flying bit of branch at 300MPH, hurricanes put 2 x 4s through houses 2/3rds that speed so that would be a challenge. At 250 mph, the TransRapid TR-08 simply vaporized any biological object it hame across little-to-no-damage to the vehicle (but there was a mess to clean up). A large object can be an issue, but small objects will likely be pushed aside by the pressure wave ahead of the vehicle. That said the only other remarkable thing was how shaky the video was at 500km/h The vehicle is still undergoing testing, the facility may not have figured out or implemented the ride-quality algorithms yet.

mkonecny 12y ago

How do the engineers account for earthquakes on these trains? I could see it being quite disastrous if one were to occur while this train travelling at 500km/h. Also I wonder what the efficiency is given that the train needs to push through the thick atmosphere at 0 altitude compared to airplanes which fly at their top speed in a very sparse atmosphere.

bostonvaulter2 12y ago
When the large japanese quake occurred I remember reading an article about how the Japanese Shinkansen have an automated system that will put on the brakes in the case of an earthquake. Within 2 or 5 seconds if I remember correctly.
ojiikun 12y ago
A network of seismometers to detect foreshocks all over the islands and a system to send an automated stop signal to trains. It worked in 2011 when all the high speed trains were successfully stopped ~10 seconds before the 9.0 mag quake hit: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/06/16/national/shinkansen-quake-survivability-key-selling-point/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2011/06/16/national/shinkan...
jpatokal 12y ago
Thanks to the Shinkansen, Japan's had plenty of practice with this. Their "UrEDAS" (theoretically "Urgent Earthquake Detection and Alarm System", although this is just a backronym for yuredasu "starts to shake") monitors both P and S waves and brings trains to a halt automatically, and is considered the gold standard for this kind of thing. In the 50 years they've been running trains, there's been one (1) derailment due to an earthquake, with zero fatalities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen#Earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen#Earthquake http://sdr.co.jp/papers/13wcee_uredas.pdf http://sdr.co.jp/papers/13wcee_uredas.pdf

bsaul 12y ago

Tgv beat that speed many years ago, on rails : http://youtu.be/8skXT5NQzCg http://youtu.be/8skXT5NQzCg

dllu 12y ago
Maglev also beat that speed many years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_rail_vehicles#Maglev_trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record_for_rail_veh... In 2003 the Japanese maglev test train running on the same test track reached 581 km/h. It was not until 2007 that the TGV reached 574 km/h.
VeejayRampay 12y ago
Better yet, IIRC TGV achieved 380km/h 35 years ago.

kyleblarson 12y ago

I am sitting on the Sakura Shinkansen headed towards Shin Osaka as I read this.