3 ms·

>>Now I am back home and guess what? I am finding that the same kind of people around here are claiming the same thing. Maybe they really feel better on gluten

>>Now I am back home and guess what? I am finding that the same kind of people around here are claiming the same thing. Maybe they really feel better on gluten-free diet ? >>I fell people want to be special and sometimes they do it by having a special condition or something like that. You are the worse kind of skeptic. People are telling you that they are feeling better/some conditions go away on gluten free diet and you not only don't believe them but you project some silly justification on them like "want to feel special". >>I can't seat still, I really can't. And I talk a lot too... I've lived like that, learned to control it and to focus when needed. It's easier to learn for some and more difficult for others. That you were able to learn on your own doesn't mean others can without pharmacological help. Also maybe some people other than you feel better on gluten free diet.

maxerickson 12y ago
Self assessment is notoriously useless. Being a skeptic practically requires that you ignore anything based on it. (but, for instance, hives during an allergic reaction can be assessed by a third party, so they aren't the same as "I feel better.")
- bluecalm 12y ago
  This is ridiculous. Self-assessment is the most important tool for finding what works. It's not easy to do it right but still. Sometimes it's very easy. When something very specific goes away when you change your diet (like bloating or some specific pain you had for long time) then you have very strong evidence that it worked.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Yes, of course individuals have to use some sort of self assessment. The point is that aggregating them and treating that as evidence is mostly futile.
  - Lewton 12y ago
    >then you have very strong evidence that it worked. No. You really don't. Vague symptoms like bloating or specific pain come and go all the time. You might have some indication that it worked from your single experiment, but calling it "strong evidence" is just... Imagine if I used your logic to come up with a cure for the common cold? I'd be shouting eureka after 6 days
    - bluecalm 12y ago
      You are again assuming incompetency with gathering data. Your counter example is about non-chronic condition (common cold) so it doesn't really relate as the evidence is stronger with chronic conditions. With gluten and gluten-free you can also go back and forth and see how things change. Also bloating isn't a vague symptom. You can put measuring tape to your belly and see the numbers.
oftenwrong 12y ago
> Maybe they really feel better on gluten-free diet ? If a person feels better on a gluten-free diet, it does not necessarily mean they have a gluten sensitivity. For example, see this study of people who self-reported as having gluten sensitivity. The participants unanimously reported feeling better on the low-FODMAP run-in diet, but during the trials were found to have no specific reactions to gluten. This suggests that gluten was not actually responsible for their symptoms. One possible explanation is that a gluten-free diet may lead a person to also avoid (unintentionally) the actual cause of the symptoms (e.g. other FODMAPs that happen to be found alongside gluten in foods). http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/fulltext http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/f...
- bluecalm 12y ago
  I didn't state that it's necessarily because of gluten sensitivity only that's is very possible. Also it's very possible that gluten acts in some ways we don't understand (and thus can't test for) yet. My point is just you can't dismiss the feedback from people as "wanting to feel special" just because you don't believe their assessed the situation correctly.
cfontes 12y ago
Sorry if I offended you. But you made some very wrong assumptions. I never argue with someone about it, or try to talk them out of it.I think that if they are happy like that. Fine for them. I am just stating facts and creating my opinion based on those experiences. I think it's completely wrong to tell a child they have a disease for life and will have to take drugs because they run a lot or can't listen to 6 hours of class. Pharmaceutical companies must love those new diseases...

maxerickson 12y ago

Self assessment is notoriously useless. Being a skeptic practically requires that you ignore anything based on it. (but, for instance, hives during an allergic reaction can be assessed by a third party, so they aren't the same as "I feel better.")

bluecalm 12y ago
This is ridiculous. Self-assessment is the most important tool for finding what works. It's not easy to do it right but still. Sometimes it's very easy. When something very specific goes away when you change your diet (like bloating or some specific pain you had for long time) then you have very strong evidence that it worked.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Yes, of course individuals have to use some sort of self assessment. The point is that aggregating them and treating that as evidence is mostly futile.
- Lewton 12y ago
  >then you have very strong evidence that it worked. No. You really don't. Vague symptoms like bloating or specific pain come and go all the time. You might have some indication that it worked from your single experiment, but calling it "strong evidence" is just... Imagine if I used your logic to come up with a cure for the common cold? I'd be shouting eureka after 6 days
  - bluecalm 12y ago
    You are again assuming incompetency with gathering data. Your counter example is about non-chronic condition (common cold) so it doesn't really relate as the evidence is stronger with chronic conditions. With gluten and gluten-free you can also go back and forth and see how things change. Also bloating isn't a vague symptom. You can put measuring tape to your belly and see the numbers.

oftenwrong 12y ago

> Maybe they really feel better on gluten-free diet ? If a person feels better on a gluten-free diet, it does not necessarily mean they have a gluten sensitivity. For example, see this study of people who self-reported as having gluten sensitivity. The participants unanimously reported feeling better on the low-FODMAP run-in diet, but during the trials were found to have no specific reactions to gluten. This suggests that gluten was not actually responsible for their symptoms. One possible explanation is that a gluten-free diet may lead a person to also avoid (unintentionally) the actual cause of the symptoms (e.g. other FODMAPs that happen to be found alongside gluten in foods). http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/fulltext http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(13)00702-6/f...

bluecalm 12y ago
I didn't state that it's necessarily because of gluten sensitivity only that's is very possible. Also it's very possible that gluten acts in some ways we don't understand (and thus can't test for) yet. My point is just you can't dismiss the feedback from people as "wanting to feel special" just because you don't believe their assessed the situation correctly.

cfontes 12y ago

Sorry if I offended you. But you made some very wrong assumptions. I never argue with someone about it, or try to talk them out of it.I think that if they are happy like that. Fine for them. I am just stating facts and creating my opinion based on those experiences. I think it's completely wrong to tell a child they have a disease for life and will have to take drugs because they run a lot or can't listen to 6 hours of class. Pharmaceutical companies must love those new diseases...