6 ms·

I am a bit sick of this Gluten thing. I understand that some ( maybe this 1% ) actually have a disease or some deep sensitivity. But from my personal circles a

by cfontes 12y ago

I am a bit sick of this Gluten thing. I understand that some ( maybe this 1% ) actually have a disease or some deep sensitivity. But from my personal circles and work ones I am seeing lots of people that have always been sensitive and prone to say they have some weird diseases are adopting this, switching to Gluten-free and using it like a brand. I've been away from home for some time, I meet something like 10 people from a total of 100 maybe... that claimed to have some variation of Celiac disease, a few even told me that all their tests were negative, but tests don't matter they still had it. Most of those people didn't know each other. Now I am back home and guess what? I am finding that the same kind of people around here are claiming the same thing. Most of those people I meet at IT related things, sport activities and random day to day life I fell people want to be special and sometimes they do it by having a special condition or something like that. Besides the real ones we keep creating diseases that are really loose specified and releasing it to the public. People catch those things and blame all their problems on some super special condition. I can't seat still, I really can't. And I talk a lot too... I've lived like that, learned to control it and to focus when needed. I am no Jedi, life thought me that this behavior would make my life miserable. Now a days children like me are sick! Wonderful, problem solved.

jcromartie 12y ago
It's identity politics. People want something to make them feel special. With the decline of actual strife (sectarian, racial, gender) in society, people need to feel like they are oppressed by something. Gluten and the food industry conveniently fit the bill for many.
- mattmanser 12y ago
  I think it's far more likely that they feel that something is wrong with them and they're desperately trying to find what it is, and just keep latching on to the next fad. Whether or not it's all in the mind is kinda moot, as it still makes them feel bad. By doing something, anything, they feel a bit better.
  - bluecalm 12y ago
    What a closed-minded attitude! Fad, identity, feel special... what about: they experiment with things and many of them have found that gluten-free makes them feel better. Why are you dismissing the most natural explanation of all while patronizing them in the process ?
    - cfontes 12y ago
      Them do it! I am not against it. Just citing some facts I observed. Medical tests will tell you if you have Celiac disease or not. If you don't and want to keep doing it, fine! I will not talk with you about it and will run from that topic in order to not offend you, but my opinion still is that this is some mind game people are playing with themselves (unconsiously) Anyway, I am happy you are happy.
      - bluecalm 12y ago
        It's quite possible that many people do better on glute-free diet despite all the test coming negative. That might be because: -tests doesn't cater for everything; maybe there is some mechanism in which gluten harms those people which isn't detected by tests -maybe removing food with gluten from the diet removes something else which was harmful (one hypothesis is that maybe it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP) Your attitude is amazingly closed minded. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but suggesting all those people just want to feel special (or similar psychoanalytical mumbo-jumbo) is just made-up nonsense. There is 0 evidence that they do it to want to feel special or what not but there is a lot of evidence that they in fact feel better (their feedback).
        tjradcliffe 12y ago
        It might also be because many people are bad observers of their own situation, subject to confirmation bias, and do nothing to rule out placebo effects. Given what we know about people, this hypothesis is a priori far more plausible than gluten acting in some mysterious way that can't be identified, and somewhat more plausible than gluten being associated with other things that people are sensitive to. The suggestion that gluten is bad in ways that can't be detected is made less plausible by generic blind testing. Put people self-identified gluten-sensitive people on blinded diets with and without gluten and see if there is a difference. This has been done, and the test is negative. This is a black-box test that is completely independent of the mechanism of action. Look: http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitivity_may_not_exist.html http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitiv... As that same study shows, the suggestion that gluten is associated with something else bad is not totally implausible, but anyone aware of the difficulty of teasing out confounding factors in nutritional research will tend to strongly discount any form of anecdotal self-report as unreliable, because self-report about a subject where people are known to very easily fool themselves simply does not increase the posterior plausibility of the hypothesis very much. The potential for confirmation and reporting bias is far too high. This is not close-mindedness, but rather a realistic assessment of the situation based on the long history of dietary fads, all of which were strongly supported by self-report, and later turned out to be ineffective, sometimes dangerous, nonsense.
bluecalm 12y ago
>>Now I am back home and guess what? I am finding that the same kind of people around here are claiming the same thing. Maybe they really feel better on gluten-free diet ? >>I fell people want to be special and sometimes they do it by having a special condition or something like that. You are the worse kind of skeptic. People are telling you that they are feeling better/some conditions go away on gluten free diet and you not only don't believe them but you project some silly justification on them like "want to feel special". >>I can't seat still, I really can't. And I talk a lot too... I've lived like that, learned to control it and to focus when needed. It's easier to learn for some and more difficult for others. That you were able to learn on your own doesn't mean others can without pharmacological help. Also maybe some people other than you feel better on gluten free diet.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Self assessment is notoriously useless. Being a skeptic practically requires that you ignore anything based on it. (but, for instance, hives during an allergic reaction can be assessed by a third party, so they aren't the same as "I feel better.")
  - bluecalm 12y ago
    This is ridiculous. Self-assessment is the most important tool for finding what works. It's not easy to do it right but still. Sometimes it's very easy. When something very specific goes away when you change your diet (like bloating or some specific pain you had for long time) then you have very strong evidence that it worked.
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      Yes, of course individuals have to use some sort of self assessment. The point is that aggregating them and treating that as evidence is mostly futile.
    - Lewton 12y ago
      >then you have very strong evidence that it worked. No. You really don't. Vague symptoms like bloating or specific pain come and go all the time. You might have some indication that it worked from your single experiment, but calling it "strong evidence" is just... Imagine if I used your logic to come up with a cure for the common cold? I'd be shouting eureka after 6 days
return0 12y ago
First world boredom, you 've got to feed it with some drama.

by cfontes 12y ago

jcromartie 12y ago

It's identity politics. People want something to make them feel special. With the decline of actual strife (sectarian, racial, gender) in society, people need to feel like they are oppressed by something. Gluten and the food industry conveniently fit the bill for many.

mattmanser 12y ago
I think it's far more likely that they feel that something is wrong with them and they're desperately trying to find what it is, and just keep latching on to the next fad. Whether or not it's all in the mind is kinda moot, as it still makes them feel bad. By doing something, anything, they feel a bit better.
- bluecalm 12y ago
  What a closed-minded attitude! Fad, identity, feel special... what about: they experiment with things and many of them have found that gluten-free makes them feel better. Why are you dismissing the most natural explanation of all while patronizing them in the process ?
  - cfontes 12y ago
    Them do it! I am not against it. Just citing some facts I observed. Medical tests will tell you if you have Celiac disease or not. If you don't and want to keep doing it, fine! I will not talk with you about it and will run from that topic in order to not offend you, but my opinion still is that this is some mind game people are playing with themselves (unconsiously) Anyway, I am happy you are happy.
    - bluecalm 12y ago
      It's quite possible that many people do better on glute-free diet despite all the test coming negative. That might be because: -tests doesn't cater for everything; maybe there is some mechanism in which gluten harms those people which isn't detected by tests -maybe removing food with gluten from the diet removes something else which was harmful (one hypothesis is that maybe it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP) Your attitude is amazingly closed minded. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical but suggesting all those people just want to feel special (or similar psychoanalytical mumbo-jumbo) is just made-up nonsense. There is 0 evidence that they do it to want to feel special or what not but there is a lot of evidence that they in fact feel better (their feedback).
      - tjradcliffe 12y ago
        It might also be because many people are bad observers of their own situation, subject to confirmation bias, and do nothing to rule out placebo effects. Given what we know about people, this hypothesis is a priori far more plausible than gluten acting in some mysterious way that can't be identified, and somewhat more plausible than gluten being associated with other things that people are sensitive to. The suggestion that gluten is bad in ways that can't be detected is made less plausible by generic blind testing. Put people self-identified gluten-sensitive people on blinded diets with and without gluten and see if there is a difference. This has been done, and the test is negative. This is a black-box test that is completely independent of the mechanism of action. Look: http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitivity_may_not_exist.html http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitiv... As that same study shows, the suggestion that gluten is associated with something else bad is not totally implausible, but anyone aware of the difficulty of teasing out confounding factors in nutritional research will tend to strongly discount any form of anecdotal self-report as unreliable, because self-report about a subject where people are known to very easily fool themselves simply does not increase the posterior plausibility of the hypothesis very much. The potential for confirmation and reporting bias is far too high. This is not close-mindedness, but rather a realistic assessment of the situation based on the long history of dietary fads, all of which were strongly supported by self-report, and later turned out to be ineffective, sometimes dangerous, nonsense.

bluecalm 12y ago

>>Now I am back home and guess what? I am finding that the same kind of people around here are claiming the same thing. Maybe they really feel better on gluten-free diet ? >>I fell people want to be special and sometimes they do it by having a special condition or something like that. You are the worse kind of skeptic. People are telling you that they are feeling better/some conditions go away on gluten free diet and you not only don't believe them but you project some silly justification on them like "want to feel special". >>I can't seat still, I really can't. And I talk a lot too... I've lived like that, learned to control it and to focus when needed. It's easier to learn for some and more difficult for others. That you were able to learn on your own doesn't mean others can without pharmacological help. Also maybe some people other than you feel better on gluten free diet.

maxerickson 12y ago
Self assessment is notoriously useless. Being a skeptic practically requires that you ignore anything based on it. (but, for instance, hives during an allergic reaction can be assessed by a third party, so they aren't the same as "I feel better.")
- bluecalm 12y ago
  This is ridiculous. Self-assessment is the most important tool for finding what works. It's not easy to do it right but still. Sometimes it's very easy. When something very specific goes away when you change your diet (like bloating or some specific pain you had for long time) then you have very strong evidence that it worked.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Yes, of course individuals have to use some sort of self assessment. The point is that aggregating them and treating that as evidence is mostly futile.
  - Lewton 12y ago
    >then you have very strong evidence that it worked. No. You really don't. Vague symptoms like bloating or specific pain come and go all the time. You might have some indication that it worked from your single experiment, but calling it "strong evidence" is just... Imagine if I used your logic to come up with a cure for the common cold? I'd be shouting eureka after 6 days

return0 12y ago

First world boredom, you 've got to feed it with some drama.