5 ms·

Chill out and pick different audience. Most people on HN are not just "scraping by" unless making >$100k first year after college is now called scraping by. I w

by smm2000 12y ago

Chill out and pick different audience. Most people on HN are not just "scraping by" unless making >$100k first year after college is now called scraping by. I would say overall HN audience benefits much more from current political, economic and financial situation than suffer from it. It's probably not true for reddit so you can find more receptive audience there.

comrade1 12y ago
By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially California, are high, expenses are high, and plus I had no time to spend my money anyway. If take a couple weeks off to travel every now and then but would have to at least answer emails while traveling. No more of that.
- edias 12y ago
  Wouldn't the cost of living and taxes in those countries normalize the incomes a little bit?
  - adventured 12y ago
    In fact it would drop Switzerland below the US. The cost of living in Switzerland is substantially higher than most of the US.
  - comrade1 12y ago
    Expenses in Switzerland are very high but taxes are much lower than in the u.s. and wages are significantly higher than in the u.s. I can't help but feel like I was sold a lie when I lived in the u.s. I'm not sure how other parts of Europe compare.
- adventured 12y ago
  You're inventing all of that. 1) American workers don't work 60+ hours to earn 50% less than what people in Switzerland do. 2) The median income in the US is barely below that of Switzerland. 3) The average American worker does not work more than 45 hours per week for the median income. 4) If you compare people of a similar qualification + education + demographic, Americans earn more than people in Switzerland per hour worked, and have more disposable income thanks to a lower cost of living and lower taxes. The US has a very real poverty problem that is especially bad in the black community, and it substantially alters the stats on incomes / standard of living. The asian median household income for example is 100% higher than the median black household income.
  - comrade1 12y ago
    I'm talking about IT workers. Average wages are 2x-3x of the u.s. Taxes are 11% to 21% depending in the canton vs the u.s which can be up to 40% in CA. Expenses are 2x in Switzerland but if you live in s.f. probably comparable. I don't want this to get sidetracked to be a conversation about Switzerland though. In general life is better in Europe than the u.s. - less desperate. At least you have obamacare now.
    - internet_arguer 12y ago
      Obamacare isn't really good for anyone except the self-employed and underemployed. The bottom-of-the-barrel unsubsidized O-care option in CA for a family is about $650/mo.
      - nemo 12y ago
        Obamacare has also been a huge benefit to people with pre-existing health conditions. It's also been a huge benefit to the many uninsured who were picked up in the Medicaid expansion. The private plans for the self-employed/underemployed do suck though. Eventually the country needs to dump the foolishness of employer-based private insurance into some more mature, rational, and responsible approach to universal healthcare, but for now it's sadly the best we could manage.
    - 12y ago
opendais 12y ago
I don't think most people on HN are making over $100k unless they are in the Bay Area or NYC. Many, many places that "starting salary" is more like $50-60k.

by smm2000 12y ago

comrade1 12y ago

By scraping by, I mean working 60+ hours per week for those wages. Here in Switzerland we work a normal workweek (45 hours) for an average wage 2x that plus a better quality of life. Germany and London pay much less though but experienced developers can get decent wages. Edit: also, when I lived in the u.s. and ma"de significantly more than 100K I still felt like I was scraping by. Taxes in the u.s., especially California, are high, expenses are high, and plus I had no time to spend my money anyway. If take a couple weeks off to travel every now and then but would have to at least answer emails while traveling. No more of that.

edias 12y ago
Wouldn't the cost of living and taxes in those countries normalize the incomes a little bit?
- adventured 12y ago
  In fact it would drop Switzerland below the US. The cost of living in Switzerland is substantially higher than most of the US.
- comrade1 12y ago
  Expenses in Switzerland are very high but taxes are much lower than in the u.s. and wages are significantly higher than in the u.s. I can't help but feel like I was sold a lie when I lived in the u.s. I'm not sure how other parts of Europe compare.
adventured 12y ago
You're inventing all of that. 1) American workers don't work 60+ hours to earn 50% less than what people in Switzerland do. 2) The median income in the US is barely below that of Switzerland. 3) The average American worker does not work more than 45 hours per week for the median income. 4) If you compare people of a similar qualification + education + demographic, Americans earn more than people in Switzerland per hour worked, and have more disposable income thanks to a lower cost of living and lower taxes. The US has a very real poverty problem that is especially bad in the black community, and it substantially alters the stats on incomes / standard of living. The asian median household income for example is 100% higher than the median black household income.
- comrade1 12y ago
  I'm talking about IT workers. Average wages are 2x-3x of the u.s. Taxes are 11% to 21% depending in the canton vs the u.s which can be up to 40% in CA. Expenses are 2x in Switzerland but if you live in s.f. probably comparable. I don't want this to get sidetracked to be a conversation about Switzerland though. In general life is better in Europe than the u.s. - less desperate. At least you have obamacare now.
  - internet_arguer 12y ago
    Obamacare isn't really good for anyone except the self-employed and underemployed. The bottom-of-the-barrel unsubsidized O-care option in CA for a family is about $650/mo.
    - nemo 12y ago
      Obamacare has also been a huge benefit to people with pre-existing health conditions. It's also been a huge benefit to the many uninsured who were picked up in the Medicaid expansion. The private plans for the self-employed/underemployed do suck though. Eventually the country needs to dump the foolishness of employer-based private insurance into some more mature, rational, and responsible approach to universal healthcare, but for now it's sadly the best we could manage.
  - 12y ago

opendais 12y ago

I don't think most people on HN are making over $100k unless they are in the Bay Area or NYC. Many, many places that "starting salary" is more like $50-60k.