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Can I do this for myself? I mean can I submit a FOIA to see documents that fed gov has on me? Not that I am an important person, but I mean in general, what do

Can I do this for myself? I mean can I submit a FOIA to see documents that fed gov has on me? Not that I am an important person, but I mean in general, what does it take?

sliverstorm 12y ago
A form, time (it isn't fast), and a nominal filing fee (requests are mostly processed by humans, especially on old documents) You may be disappointed though. When FOIA came about, plenty of "activists" requested their files, swelling with pride thinking of all the things that must be in there- only to find just one entry: 03/07/2012: Submitted FOIA request for personal file
- malandrew 12y ago
  What about files which the government won't admit the existence of? For example, what will someone on the no-fly list see when they submit a FOIA for their files?
  - bbatsell 12y ago
    They'll receive a Glomar response. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response
    - whackedspinach 12y ago
      I received one of these when I submitted FOIA on myself.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Alupis 12y ago
    FOIA is really just a way to make people think they get access to data about them or important things. Most FOIA's about real topics get flat-out denied or the govt pretends to not have anything about the subject.
InclinedPlane 12y ago
Anyone can. http://www.foia.gov/how-to.html http://www.foia.gov/how-to.html
- eru 12y ago
  Non-citizens, too?
  - itafroma 12y ago
    > Non-citizens, too? The general rule is that anyone, citizen and non-citizen, can make a FOIA request.[1] However, the law as interpreted by the Supreme Court only provides a guarantee to open access for US citizens when making a request of a federal agency. For requests of a state agency, only US citizens residing in that state are guaranteed open access.[2] [1]: http://www.foia.gov/faq.html#who http://www.foia.gov/faq.html#who [2]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/scotus-foils-foia-advocates-challenge-citizens-only-records-laws https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/scotus-foils-foia-advo...
gregman 12y ago
Take a look at the FOIA Machine: https://www.foiamachine.org/ https://www.foiamachine.org/
tlrobinson 12y ago
In fact, yes: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/fbifile http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/fbifile
- Alupis 12y ago
  That is, if it doesn't get denied for supposed "National Security" reasons like most of us who filed FOIA's for our data out of the NSA. (the secret with FOIA's is that the government still gets to decide if they want to release the information) I, like most, got a blanket denial from my senator (D. Dianne Feinstein) via email stating they cannot disclose whether or not they have any data about me. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/06/1221694/-NSA-Rejecting-Every-FOIA-Request-Made-by-U-S-Citizens http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/06/1221694/-NSA-Reject...
  - nl 12y ago
    The NSA is hardly the entirety of the US Federal Government. Notably, none of these documents on Aaron Swartz were from the NSA. Whilst I'm sympathetic to the idea of keeping the NSA's operations under the spotlight, that doesn't mean there isn't significant benefit (or just interest) in other things too.
    - Alupis 12y ago
      Don't see your point. The FBI denies plenty of FOIA's. http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/benghazi-fbi-foia-request-denied-stonewall-continues http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/benghazi-fbi-fo... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/01542825271/fbi-stops-responding-to-most-prolific-foia-filer-because-he-might-actually-learn-something.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/01542825271/fbi-s... If the FBI released the Swartz data, it's because they felt like it, not because the FOIA somehow actually compelled them to.
      - nl 12y ago
        That TechDirt article is really interesting. For those who were put off by the other article, here's the TL;DR: A person has discovered that by lodging multiple FOIA requests along with multiple privacy waivers he can get access to data that he wouldn't be able to normally get access to. The article doesn't go into the mechanics of it, but it sounds like each request is hitting a different censor, and each censor censors things slightly differently, and so information leaks out from the differences. These differences give clues as to where to lodge new FOIA requests. Ironically, this approach is somewhat analogous to mass metadata collection: a single record doesn't do much, but in bulk a very comprehensive picture is built up that wouldn't be available otherwise. It seems the FBI is arguing this in court, and trying to stop the approach. I can completely understand their concerns, and I'm not sure I have an opinion on which way the court should rule. (As for the "CanadaFreePress" article: I think the FBI's refusal is completely legal, and even reasonable. Even if you don't agree, there is little legal doubt that the FBI is legally entitled to deny requests regarding ongoing investigations.)
lelandbatey 12y ago
You can do this, and I have done this. If you're a somewhat normal person, they probably don't have anything on you. They had no information about me, and most of them included letters saying "we would appreciate it if people stopped sending us these requests because we have much less information than you think we do, and it costs money for us to process these requests." Here's the site that I used to create the letters I sent for each FOIA request: http://www.getmyfbifile.com/ http://www.getmyfbifile.com/
- gcb0 12y ago
  you mean "they didn't have"
pera 12y ago
There was an interesting talk during the last HOPE about FOIA requests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIZNcCUDOHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIZNcCUDOHg
themagician 12y ago
If you submit a FOIA request on yourself you will probably be denied. FOIA Requests are only for organizations, businesses, investigations, historical events, incidents, groups, or deceased persons. Privacy Act Requests are for yourself. You must include Form DOJ-361 or equivalent when submitting.
- tsaoutourpants 12y ago
  No. Just no. Please don't take the comment above as valid legal advice.
  - codewiz 12y ago
    Did you spot a specific issue, or are you just opposed to any form of legal advice given on HN?
    - smackfu 12y ago
      Well, it would be nice if they cited something, rather than just making general statements that may or may not be true.
  - themagician 12y ago
    Um, it's not really "legal advice". That's just how it is. It's not rocket science. Here's what the FBI has to say about the issue: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/requesting-fbi-records http://www.fbi.gov/foia/requesting-fbi-records The CIA, NSA, an just about every other agency have the same information on their site. It's also on Wikipedia.
- chii 12y ago
  > FOIA Requests are only for organizations, businesses, so if i create a company/business, then i can do the exact same request and it will not be denied? I don't understand the difference between an individual vs a business (which is owned, and presumably, act in the interest, of the individual).
  - 12y ago
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

Can I do this for myself? I mean can I submit a FOIA to see documents that fed gov has on me? Not that I am an important person, but I mean in general, what does it take?

sliverstorm 12y ago

A form, time (it isn't fast), and a nominal filing fee (requests are mostly processed by humans, especially on old documents) You may be disappointed though. When FOIA came about, plenty of "activists" requested their files, swelling with pride thinking of all the things that must be in there- only to find just one entry: 03/07/2012: Submitted FOIA request for personal file

malandrew 12y ago
What about files which the government won't admit the existence of? For example, what will someone on the no-fly list see when they submit a FOIA for their files?
- bbatsell 12y ago
  They'll receive a Glomar response. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response
  - whackedspinach 12y ago
    I received one of these when I submitted FOIA on myself.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Alupis 12y ago
  FOIA is really just a way to make people think they get access to data about them or important things. Most FOIA's about real topics get flat-out denied or the govt pretends to not have anything about the subject.

InclinedPlane 12y ago

Anyone can. http://www.foia.gov/how-to.html http://www.foia.gov/how-to.html

eru 12y ago
Non-citizens, too?
- itafroma 12y ago
  > Non-citizens, too? The general rule is that anyone, citizen and non-citizen, can make a FOIA request.[1] However, the law as interpreted by the Supreme Court only provides a guarantee to open access for US citizens when making a request of a federal agency. For requests of a state agency, only US citizens residing in that state are guaranteed open access.[2] [1]: http://www.foia.gov/faq.html#who http://www.foia.gov/faq.html#who [2]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/scotus-foils-foia-advocates-challenge-citizens-only-records-laws https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/scotus-foils-foia-advo...

gregman 12y ago

Take a look at the FOIA Machine: https://www.foiamachine.org/ https://www.foiamachine.org/

tlrobinson 12y ago

In fact, yes: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/fbifile http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/fbifile

Alupis 12y ago
That is, if it doesn't get denied for supposed "National Security" reasons like most of us who filed FOIA's for our data out of the NSA. (the secret with FOIA's is that the government still gets to decide if they want to release the information) I, like most, got a blanket denial from my senator (D. Dianne Feinstein) via email stating they cannot disclose whether or not they have any data about me. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/06/1221694/-NSA-Rejecting-Every-FOIA-Request-Made-by-U-S-Citizens http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/06/1221694/-NSA-Reject...
- nl 12y ago
  The NSA is hardly the entirety of the US Federal Government. Notably, none of these documents on Aaron Swartz were from the NSA. Whilst I'm sympathetic to the idea of keeping the NSA's operations under the spotlight, that doesn't mean there isn't significant benefit (or just interest) in other things too.
  - Alupis 12y ago
    Don't see your point. The FBI denies plenty of FOIA's. http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/benghazi-fbi-foia-request-denied-stonewall-continues http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/benghazi-fbi-fo... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/01542825271/fbi-stops-responding-to-most-prolific-foia-filer-because-he-might-actually-learn-something.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/01542825271/fbi-s... If the FBI released the Swartz data, it's because they felt like it, not because the FOIA somehow actually compelled them to.
    - nl 12y ago
      That TechDirt article is really interesting. For those who were put off by the other article, here's the TL;DR: A person has discovered that by lodging multiple FOIA requests along with multiple privacy waivers he can get access to data that he wouldn't be able to normally get access to. The article doesn't go into the mechanics of it, but it sounds like each request is hitting a different censor, and each censor censors things slightly differently, and so information leaks out from the differences. These differences give clues as to where to lodge new FOIA requests. Ironically, this approach is somewhat analogous to mass metadata collection: a single record doesn't do much, but in bulk a very comprehensive picture is built up that wouldn't be available otherwise. It seems the FBI is arguing this in court, and trying to stop the approach. I can completely understand their concerns, and I'm not sure I have an opinion on which way the court should rule. (As for the "CanadaFreePress" article: I think the FBI's refusal is completely legal, and even reasonable. Even if you don't agree, there is little legal doubt that the FBI is legally entitled to deny requests regarding ongoing investigations.)

lelandbatey 12y ago

You can do this, and I have done this. If you're a somewhat normal person, they probably don't have anything on you. They had no information about me, and most of them included letters saying "we would appreciate it if people stopped sending us these requests because we have much less information than you think we do, and it costs money for us to process these requests." Here's the site that I used to create the letters I sent for each FOIA request: http://www.getmyfbifile.com/ http://www.getmyfbifile.com/

gcb0 12y ago
you mean "they didn't have"

pera 12y ago

There was an interesting talk during the last HOPE about FOIA requests: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIZNcCUDOHg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIZNcCUDOHg

themagician 12y ago

If you submit a FOIA request on yourself you will probably be denied. FOIA Requests are only for organizations, businesses, investigations, historical events, incidents, groups, or deceased persons. Privacy Act Requests are for yourself. You must include Form DOJ-361 or equivalent when submitting.

tsaoutourpants 12y ago
No. Just no. Please don't take the comment above as valid legal advice.
- codewiz 12y ago
  Did you spot a specific issue, or are you just opposed to any form of legal advice given on HN?
  - smackfu 12y ago
    Well, it would be nice if they cited something, rather than just making general statements that may or may not be true.
- themagician 12y ago
  Um, it's not really "legal advice". That's just how it is. It's not rocket science. Here's what the FBI has to say about the issue: http://www.fbi.gov/foia/requesting-fbi-records http://www.fbi.gov/foia/requesting-fbi-records The CIA, NSA, an just about every other agency have the same information on their site. It's also on Wikipedia.
chii 12y ago
> FOIA Requests are only for organizations, businesses, so if i create a company/business, then i can do the exact same request and it will not be denied? I don't understand the difference between an individual vs a business (which is owned, and presumably, act in the interest, of the individual).
- 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]