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Great slides - thanks. One surprise "leave off education". Would like to hear some more thoughts about that - haven't seen that before. 18 yrs experience so I

by dpweb 12y ago

Great slides - thanks. One surprise "leave off education". Would like to hear some more thoughts about that - haven't seen that before. 18 yrs experience so I'm sure its not too important (I did nothing spectacular in college, but did graduate) - still leave it off completely?

vamin 12y ago
I started putting an abbreviated education section at the very bottom (instead of a full section at the top, as is common) and it significantly improved response rates. I especially recommend this strategy if your field of study isn't traditional. I made the change to education at the bottom after watching a recruiter read my resume in person--I could actually see the moment she got to the education section and tuned out completely. It turns out people in tech tend to be turned off by my chemistry degrees. (Aside: It would be cool to have some sort of service that allowed you to A/B test resumes against a certain hiring demographic.)
grecy 12y ago
I second the question. I have a bachelor of Software Engineering (certified Engineer) with First Class Honors, and I know I'm usually competing against people with a Comp Sci. degree, or even just a diploma. I think it's important to highlight my education, as it puts me a cut above. Am I being a little stuck-up?
- kasey_junk 12y ago
  From my experience the kind of degree someone has is virtually meaningless. The only time I even take it into account is when I'm choosing interns and the difference between Software Engineering and Comp Sci is still meaningless.
- dyeje 12y ago
  It depends. If you have a lot of experience in the field, then that's going to be more important then the degree you obtained 10-15 years ago. If you don't have that wealth of experience, then it makes sense to include your education.
  - grecy 12y ago
    Thanks. That's probably why I still like to include it, I've taken many years off for traveling, snowboard instructing, etc. so my experience section is a lot thinner than it should be for my age (32).
- peteretep 12y ago
  How much work experience do you have? If it's more then 4-5 years, no-one cares.
- Guvante 12y ago
  I for one would never consider a Software Engineer better than a Computer Science degree. I check to see if you have a degree in software and assume whatever label you use is just due to the random selection by your college. Having no experience and no experience is killer, but once you have some experience lack of a degree isn't a big deal.
  - grecy 12y ago
    Interesting, thanks for the perspective. My degree was an extra year on top of Comp. Sci. and included fields like compiler theory and design, real time programming, digital electric design and engineering math 1-4 which comp. sci. didn't. I'm also a certified Engineer (in Australia, anyway), which I always thought counted for something. I have about 5 years experience now.
    - infinite8s 12y ago
      After about 5 yrs experience most people don't really care about where you went to school (except places like Google or Facebook). Some might care whether you completed a degree but are probably more interested in what you did the last 5 years (ie if the most exciting/interesting you can talk about after that many years of working is your school experience then you have bigger problems than your CV).
Eiriksmal 12y ago
That's what I'm also curious about. I never finished my degree and understand I have to leverage work experience and a killer portfolio to get my next development job, but have yet to figure out how to structure my resume around this niggling detail. Leaving off the education section is interesting... I'm assuming this strategy is to give you an opportunity to create interest as a candidate before the (inevitable?) question comes up, "I see you didn't mention education on your resume... Could you tell me more about that?" Edit: Grammatical fumbling.
- pm90 12y ago
  Well, to be honest, I have had a masters degree and absolutely nobody has asked me about it EXCEPT for Google. I'm sure there are other places that focus a lot of Algorithmic stuff that would prefer if you had some academic backing, but by and large I don't think it matters at all. Especially in this job market. The only place where an educational degree will help in development jobs is probably getting work visas.
  - gsnedders 12y ago
    Google is also totally possible to get hired at with professional experience alone — you're likely to get quizzed even more on CS than other applicants (which is a lot to start with!), but it's far from impossible.
learnstats2 12y ago
If you graduated college, it might be worth 1 line - a few decision makers will filter you out if you don't explicitly say it. Or, it's worth 0 lines if you think that's not the kind of company you want to work for. I once had a hiring manager ask why my K-12 education was not on my resume... he said he had wanted to filter out my CV on that basis; then I filtered his company partly on that basis.

by dpweb 12y ago

vamin 12y ago

I started putting an abbreviated education section at the very bottom (instead of a full section at the top, as is common) and it significantly improved response rates. I especially recommend this strategy if your field of study isn't traditional. I made the change to education at the bottom after watching a recruiter read my resume in person--I could actually see the moment she got to the education section and tuned out completely. It turns out people in tech tend to be turned off by my chemistry degrees. (Aside: It would be cool to have some sort of service that allowed you to A/B test resumes against a certain hiring demographic.)

grecy 12y ago

I second the question. I have a bachelor of Software Engineering (certified Engineer) with First Class Honors, and I know I'm usually competing against people with a Comp Sci. degree, or even just a diploma. I think it's important to highlight my education, as it puts me a cut above. Am I being a little stuck-up?

kasey_junk 12y ago
From my experience the kind of degree someone has is virtually meaningless. The only time I even take it into account is when I'm choosing interns and the difference between Software Engineering and Comp Sci is still meaningless.
dyeje 12y ago
It depends. If you have a lot of experience in the field, then that's going to be more important then the degree you obtained 10-15 years ago. If you don't have that wealth of experience, then it makes sense to include your education.
- grecy 12y ago
  Thanks. That's probably why I still like to include it, I've taken many years off for traveling, snowboard instructing, etc. so my experience section is a lot thinner than it should be for my age (32).
peteretep 12y ago
How much work experience do you have? If it's more then 4-5 years, no-one cares.
Guvante 12y ago
I for one would never consider a Software Engineer better than a Computer Science degree. I check to see if you have a degree in software and assume whatever label you use is just due to the random selection by your college. Having no experience and no experience is killer, but once you have some experience lack of a degree isn't a big deal.
- grecy 12y ago
  Interesting, thanks for the perspective. My degree was an extra year on top of Comp. Sci. and included fields like compiler theory and design, real time programming, digital electric design and engineering math 1-4 which comp. sci. didn't. I'm also a certified Engineer (in Australia, anyway), which I always thought counted for something. I have about 5 years experience now.
  - infinite8s 12y ago
    After about 5 yrs experience most people don't really care about where you went to school (except places like Google or Facebook). Some might care whether you completed a degree but are probably more interested in what you did the last 5 years (ie if the most exciting/interesting you can talk about after that many years of working is your school experience then you have bigger problems than your CV).

Eiriksmal 12y ago

That's what I'm also curious about. I never finished my degree and understand I have to leverage work experience and a killer portfolio to get my next development job, but have yet to figure out how to structure my resume around this niggling detail. Leaving off the education section is interesting... I'm assuming this strategy is to give you an opportunity to create interest as a candidate before the (inevitable?) question comes up, "I see you didn't mention education on your resume... Could you tell me more about that?" Edit: Grammatical fumbling.

pm90 12y ago
Well, to be honest, I have had a masters degree and absolutely nobody has asked me about it EXCEPT for Google. I'm sure there are other places that focus a lot of Algorithmic stuff that would prefer if you had some academic backing, but by and large I don't think it matters at all. Especially in this job market. The only place where an educational degree will help in development jobs is probably getting work visas.
- gsnedders 12y ago
  Google is also totally possible to get hired at with professional experience alone — you're likely to get quizzed even more on CS than other applicants (which is a lot to start with!), but it's far from impossible.

learnstats2 12y ago

If you graduated college, it might be worth 1 line - a few decision makers will filter you out if you don't explicitly say it. Or, it's worth 0 lines if you think that's not the kind of company you want to work for. I once had a hiring manager ask why my K-12 education was not on my resume... he said he had wanted to filter out my CV on that basis; then I filtered his company partly on that basis.