9 ms·

State of Linux Gaming

89 points by lmedinas 12y ago

vkjv 12y ago
Personal anecdote. Out of the blue, my wife suggested that we play some Age of Empires III. I don't have a Windows computer anymore so I decided to give it a go in Linux Mint. I used Crossover Linux (already had a license for MS Office) and it "just worked". Everything from sound to full screen high quality graphics was perfect. No input lag or anything else. I understand that this is a game that's nearly a decade old but I am deeply impressed by the quality here considering it wasn't even built for that platform. It makes me wonder, how easily could developers support Linux if they just decided to? It seems like it might not be the burden or overhead that it once was.
- tormeh 12y ago
  Especially now that C++ gets more platform-hiding features. System calls is the enemy of portability. DirectX is still a pain in the ass, though the attractivity of making OS X ports makes OpenGL more familiar to developers.
  - zanny 12y ago
    DirectX, at least version 9 for most old games from 2010 and earlier, is almost a solved problem on Gallium drivers. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNzU http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNzU If there is a working DirectX state tracker, combined with a reimplementation of the Windows API like Wine, you have fully native Windows binary games. All the slowness in Wine today comes from reinterpreting DirectX into OpenGL.
    - elektronjunge 12y ago
      Great I can use 5 year old games in their fallback renderer.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  A more recent example, I played recently Wolf Among Us straight from the Telltales install files from their official website and it ran flawlessly on WINE too. I was quite impressed.
fit2rule 12y ago
This is the only really interesting thing going on in Linux gaming these days: http://openpandora.org/ http://openpandora.org/ Why other vendors don't seem to get that you can get your entire OS for free, all you need is great hardware and some love for developers, and you can enter the hardware market and build a new platform, just for you and your customers. It doesn't have to be "only the majors can play" here - all it takes is a smart core of people, executives who really truly do "get it", and a compelling reason to get yourself a community going, with real customers whom you can communicate with. Android, iOS? Yeah, okay. Kids, you don't have to play the Framework-user dance. You can go find your own little plot of land, and have all the right ingredients, to start your own garden. Just.. have the balls to do the hard work. Its what kept the OpenPandora alive so far, in spite of it all, and the game is not over yet .. Pyra is on the horizon.
- cwyers 12y ago
  Your case here would be stronger if the OpenPandora website didn't open up with a video showing how their device enables you to play all the best video games off the major consoles from 20 years ago. That's not building your own garden, that's shoplifting from the grocery store.
  - ekianjo 12y ago
    > that's shoplifting from the grocery store. so you don't know how to rip physical CDs from your PS1 for example ? That's not that hard... All my ISOs come from there, and you can pretty much rip rom contents from every console out there, with the right tool and hardware.
    - cwyers 12y ago
      No, I mean... emulation isn't building a garden. Emulation isn't building anything. Emulation is... the kindest way of putting it is that it's preservation. You're preserving what someone else already built. Maybe you're restoring it, cleaning it up, adding value to it, but you're still relying on the thing you're building upon. My point is, it's really hard for the OpenPandora to be an alternative to the proprietary consoles so long as its sales pitch is that it can run software written for all the older proprietary consoles. You can't be an alternative to something you're wholly dependent on.
forrestthewoods 12y ago
"My take is the devs doing these ports just aren't doing their best to optimize these releases for Linux and/or OpenGL." Pretty much. Platforms with 1% of a user base don't get priority over one with 90%. Especially when a significant number of those 1% users also have access to the 90% platform. Linux is only remotely worth it if you're a small indie and want to get into humble bundle. Aside from that there is no financial incentive to support Linux. Lots of devs jumped on the linux train due to the promise of SteamOS but those efforts appear to have been largely wasted.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > Lots of devs jumped on the linux train due to the promise of SteamOS but those efforts appear to have been largely wasted. wasted? It's funny how efforts can be wasted when the actual OS you refer to is not even released yet (still in beta). Ler's see once it comes out.
  - forrestthewoods 12y ago
    Oh they're totally wasted. And the longer it takes the OS to come out, assuming it ever does and I'm doubtful it will, the more effort is wasted. There are games coming out today that had Linux support added just because of the hope of SteamOS. That effort is totally wasted. And it's wasted even if SteamOS comes out and is wildly successful in a couple of years.
    - matthewmacleod 12y ago
      That… makes no sense whatsoever? The first public release of SteamOS was less than a year ago. It was announced only shortly before that. It seems highly unlikely that there have been many games which have had Linux support added due to SteamOS in that timeframe.
      - tormeh 12y ago
        Some games have, and remember that purchases of legacy games are negligible to publishers. I think 90% of sales are in the first two weeks or some similar extreme statistic.
anon4 12y ago
> But the masses will probably never get to hold that controller. That's really sad.
- shmerl 12y ago
  I'm not sure where that commenter (Qzukk) got the info. It sounds simply false. So I wouldn't really get his word for it.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    Yeah, Windows OEMs have been allowed to do pretty much whatever the hell they've wanted with the OS since before the dawn of time. Heck, does anyone remember the Packard Bell Navigator? This is old hat.
  - anon4 12y ago
    Even if you account for Valve Time, Steam OS seems completely dead, after Valve got what they wanted from MS. And I have a hard time believing a for-profit company would invest in development of an open product just because "open and libre is better for people than closed". Companies don't exist to make the lives of people good.
    - listic 12y ago
      For those of us that have been living under a rock: what did Valve get from MS and exactly why did Steam OS become 'dead'?
      - lmedinas 12y ago
        Have you read the article ? quote from article: "Let's be honest, SteamOS is done. Steam got exactly what they wanted from Microsoft and dropped it like a hot potato (so sorry, you'll never get to use that cool controller). <...> Hell, they're probably begging them to let them advertise their Geek Squad services to "optimize" the experience and install that $5 program for $100. But no, the Microsoft Experience is inviolate, the holiest of holies, eternally immutable. No matter how much hatred it gets, it Must. Not. Be. Changed . And then Alienware ships a Windows 8 PC that boots to Steam instead of Metro."
shmerl 12y ago
The major breakthrough should be coming with OpenGL-next. Until that time the situation will be quirky. I wonder how long it will take to draft it though.
- EpicEng 12y ago
  I think most will maintain a healthy cynicism of this until it is shown to be true. Remember 3.0?
  - shmerl 12y ago
    They must have learned from the previous experience by this time. Plus there are more players this time who actively want to make it right. It's surprising that it didn't happen before, but I guess there simply wasn't enough initiative.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Apple rescued them from the previous experience. If iPhone hadn't happened with its OpenGL ES 1.0 hardware implementation driving game studios to reconsider it, OpenGL would have been dead by now.
zamalek 12y ago
This touches on a concern of mine: > driver situation Completely anecdotal: I remember a few years back, when I was much younger trying to get drivers working for XOrg and compiz. I couldn't even manage a smooth GLGears. I botched my installation multiple times with no indication of how to fix it. Fast forward a few years and we have open source drivers that actually work. Install Ubuntu, compiz works. Lovely, now maybe I see what the game situation is like. I dig through the app store and find that game with the Tux luge. 2FPS. So I dig around in settings and find the option to install the "non-free" drivers. Install them and I get my buttery-smooth 60FPS, I will continue to get harassed about that fact that I'm scum who installs closed-source software for the foreseeable future, by the OS. I can live with that. So how would a 14 year old wanting to play games on Linux see this? Firstly, he'd install a game such as Borderlands and try it out. He hits a wall with dreadful framerate. One of two things, he goes back to a pirated copy of Windows (most likely) or somehow finds out he needs the vendor kernel module: He pulls down the compiler tools, which could take up to an hour in 3rd world countries (first-hand experience). He then goes through the process of changing the init level to 2, compiling the driver shim and installing it. He then reboots his PC and XOrg crashes. Back to Windows or... He discovers the Ubuntu automatic installer. Excellent! Just a few clicks and... "non-free?" Does this mean I have to pay for it? Will I need my parents' credit card? Why is there a warning sign? Am I doing something wrong? Could this damage my hardware? Let's say he figures it all out and wants to play some MP3s while he games... It's friction the whole way. This is a very severe case of getting your message mixed up with extremism. The situation of people using Linux is always better than the situation of them using something like Windows, even if they do have to use some non-free components to do so. You can't change the world overnight, baby steps. /rant
- shmerl 12y ago
  Linux introduces a healthy level of distrust to closed drivers - which is good. It doesn't mean they can't be used, but being aware about downsides is a good thing.
  - zamalek 12y ago
    Ok let me use another analogy here. You have organised this conference. You have an audience of millions of Windows users. It's likely once-in-a-lifetime for the majority of them. You are going to give them a hands-on presentation detailing the value of free software and Linux, you will have their undivided attention for a week. One problem: the organiser fell through with the chairs. There are unassembled ones ready to go, but the company who made those parts require that their guys assemble the chairs. You have some real smart fellas around that figured out how to assemble the chairs, only it's not perfect and there's a bit sticking into your butt. So you start off the event with everyone standing their respective venues, no chairs in sight. You start off like this: "We had a problem with the chairs. If you don't want to sit on the dirty floor you'll need to use one of these chairs one of our guys put together." (Not telling them about the bit sticking into their butt, which you don't) "We can get the manufacturer to build the chairs for you, however, because we don't know how they did it we don't know if the chairs will break. If it breaks you could snap your spine, turning you into a paraplegic." "Or you could remain standing, or sit on the floor." How many people will walk out right there and then? Would you? Some people, who no have reason to trust you over the manufacturer (keep that in mind), might use the ones your guys made. After a day sitting with a pokey bit in your butt, what would you do? If you had a fully functional chair how long would you stick around for? Who provided that chair? What have you just done to your potential audience? The message is important, maybe one day people will understand but never if this hardline approach is maintained. An honest appraisal of each option is needed for users, up-front during the installation process. They must not go in search of it: - Open source drivers: poor performance, very stable, likely to not crash. - Proprietary drivers: high performance, we don't know if you should trust them, if something goes wrong there is nothing we can do. > Change always comes bearing gifts. ~Price Pritchett
jason46 12y ago
I think witcher2 is a good example of how good gaming can be on linux, I had very good frame rates and the game looks amazing. I was playing this with an nvidia card using nvidia drivers. But as the article points out, we are at the mercy of the developers supporting OpenGl which there is apparently not a large motivation to do so.
- lmedinas 12y ago
  Exactly, when the port is good quality then people get a good experience. I can tell the same about Blizzard games on OSX or Civilization V on Linux. I also still remember about America's Army a decade ago was also a great port which afaik as done by Ryan "icculus" Gordon. Usually these people have a lot of experience porting Windows games to Linux/OSX.
- zanny 12y ago
  The Witcher 2 port is a proprietary WIne like wrapper around DirectX that reinterprets it into OpenGL. The Linux performance of Witcher 2 is abyssal, usually half or worse the framerate on Windows.
alkonaut 12y ago
Should we really be hoping for Linux gaming? If anything, we should hope for non-windows gaming, if that is what we are after (saving on licenses etc). It feels like a lot of what's holding Linux gaming back is inherent to Linux (fragmentation for example), as well as layered security. I'm no expert, and maybe it's been tried, but wouldn't it be easier to compete with windows using a platform with less security (faster driver model)? That is, a boot-to-gaming console OS for x86? It would run som form of modified Linux kernel or other free OS, but it wouldn't be "desktop Linux" with X11, kde/gnome etc. I still don't believe in seeing AAA titles all launch for Linux, at least not while hardware vendors struggle to keep drivers working on windows (and barely succeed).
- aaron-lebo 12y ago
  How different is what you are talking about from the Steambox?
  - vlunkr 12y ago
    SteamOS is essentially just a layer on top of Debian. It has Steam installed and some drivers, but underneath it's just Linux. OP is talking about about something that is more dedicated to games. It could be a modified Linux or something from scratch, but it wouldn't just be a layer on top of something else.
- zanny 12y ago
  > fragmentation for example Steam on Linux is only sanctioned to work on Ubuntu. There is no fragmentation in Steam on Linux. Any other OS that is distributing Steam is doing so at their own risk. > It would run som form of modified Linux kernel or other free OS, but it wouldn't be "desktop Linux" with X11, kde/gnome etc. Well, one, you need some kind of display server. Android, Windows, and even the consoles have one. Wayland is replacing X11 because its a slow bloated piece of shit, but even then if you wanted a "gaming OS" you would end up using Linux kernel + drivers + Wayland + EGL instead. And that is fine, its a full software stack with nothing else tacked on. And I honestly have no idea why Valve includes Gnome on the release images of SteamOS. Nothing stops you from having X just run Steam directly, with no other programs or desktops or anything. You can already do that yourself.
BuildTheRobots 12y ago
Anecdotal flipside: Saw Max Payne on Steam and thought I'd relive some of my childhood. Bought it, downloaded it and found it was ni-on impossible to install on windows 7. Linux + wine and it worked flawlessly and first time.
zanny 12y ago
So I am like the school yard reject here. I own most of the games on the port report list, I run a 7870 on radeonSI, and I have a pretty good experience overall. Framerates are of course not there, but I buy the hardware hoping that AMD will get there eventually. Only way to do so if someone generating market pressure for it to happen. The thing is, Valve is fucking up SteamOS royally. If they hadn't messed up, they would have had strict requirements on games entering the system, and spent real money paying developers to port in advance of the OS launch, and they would have actually been ready to launch it when they said they would. You know, around now. All those small form factor PCs now shipping Windows that were meant to be Steamboxes are a testament to Valve screwing the pooch. And it is entirely their fault for not being ready, like they could just say "hey, were making a controller and porting our games to SDL2, everyone else you're on your own" and then drop the ball on the controller and still not have Portal 2 out of beta on Linux. Great leading by example there. That, and SteamOS proper is just a cobbled together mutant of Debian, rather than a proper OS - seriously, why the fuck is Gnome on it? That is pre alpha software for a console OS release, where all that should be on the image is a kernel, some drivers, a display server (preferrably Wayland), the Steam runtime, Steam itself, and fuck all else because its for consoles and console users are only going to run Steam on it, especially when it has a browser and all the other dodads like voice chat and music playing they have integrated. So yeah, the article is mostly right - Valve used it as a ruse to get Microsoft to cooperate on promises about future releases easing off the Windows store. They probably got what they wanted, and SteamOS will become Episode 3 or HL 3 vaporware for years.
nickstinemates 12y ago
Avid Linux user. The thing I hate most? Multi-monitor. At home I have 8 (4x2), making it all one big desktop is not (as far as I can tell) possible using any driver. Gaming has been great over the past year.
adwf 12y ago
Anecdotally: I have a 7-8 year old CPU (Q6600) with a 4 year old GPU (GTX 460 SE). I'm running Tropico 5, Civ 5, CS:GO, XCom, TF2 - all great. The only game I've had even slight problems with is Borderlands 2 and I'd probably have needed to turn down the settings in Windows anyway. The problem here isn't SteamOS, it's AMD and their crappy drivers. If you're on Nvidia, everything is good. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon either, I've bought only Nvidia for the last 8 years specifically because this is a known issue on Linux.

89 points by lmedinas 12y ago

vkjv 12y ago

Personal anecdote. Out of the blue, my wife suggested that we play some Age of Empires III. I don't have a Windows computer anymore so I decided to give it a go in Linux Mint. I used Crossover Linux (already had a license for MS Office) and it "just worked". Everything from sound to full screen high quality graphics was perfect. No input lag or anything else. I understand that this is a game that's nearly a decade old but I am deeply impressed by the quality here considering it wasn't even built for that platform. It makes me wonder, how easily could developers support Linux if they just decided to? It seems like it might not be the burden or overhead that it once was.

tormeh 12y ago
Especially now that C++ gets more platform-hiding features. System calls is the enemy of portability. DirectX is still a pain in the ass, though the attractivity of making OS X ports makes OpenGL more familiar to developers.
- zanny 12y ago
  DirectX, at least version 9 for most old games from 2010 and earlier, is almost a solved problem on Gallium drivers. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNzU http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgxNzU If there is a working DirectX state tracker, combined with a reimplementation of the Windows API like Wine, you have fully native Windows binary games. All the slowness in Wine today comes from reinterpreting DirectX into OpenGL.
  - elektronjunge 12y ago
    Great I can use 5 year old games in their fallback renderer.
ekianjo 12y ago
A more recent example, I played recently Wolf Among Us straight from the Telltales install files from their official website and it ran flawlessly on WINE too. I was quite impressed.

fit2rule 12y ago

This is the only really interesting thing going on in Linux gaming these days: http://openpandora.org/ http://openpandora.org/ Why other vendors don't seem to get that you can get your entire OS for free, all you need is great hardware and some love for developers, and you can enter the hardware market and build a new platform, just for you and your customers. It doesn't have to be "only the majors can play" here - all it takes is a smart core of people, executives who really truly do "get it", and a compelling reason to get yourself a community going, with real customers whom you can communicate with. Android, iOS? Yeah, okay. Kids, you don't have to play the Framework-user dance. You can go find your own little plot of land, and have all the right ingredients, to start your own garden. Just.. have the balls to do the hard work. Its what kept the OpenPandora alive so far, in spite of it all, and the game is not over yet .. Pyra is on the horizon.

cwyers 12y ago
Your case here would be stronger if the OpenPandora website didn't open up with a video showing how their device enables you to play all the best video games off the major consoles from 20 years ago. That's not building your own garden, that's shoplifting from the grocery store.
- ekianjo 12y ago
  > that's shoplifting from the grocery store. so you don't know how to rip physical CDs from your PS1 for example ? That's not that hard... All my ISOs come from there, and you can pretty much rip rom contents from every console out there, with the right tool and hardware.
  - cwyers 12y ago
    No, I mean... emulation isn't building a garden. Emulation isn't building anything. Emulation is... the kindest way of putting it is that it's preservation. You're preserving what someone else already built. Maybe you're restoring it, cleaning it up, adding value to it, but you're still relying on the thing you're building upon. My point is, it's really hard for the OpenPandora to be an alternative to the proprietary consoles so long as its sales pitch is that it can run software written for all the older proprietary consoles. You can't be an alternative to something you're wholly dependent on.

forrestthewoods 12y ago

"My take is the devs doing these ports just aren't doing their best to optimize these releases for Linux and/or OpenGL." Pretty much. Platforms with 1% of a user base don't get priority over one with 90%. Especially when a significant number of those 1% users also have access to the 90% platform. Linux is only remotely worth it if you're a small indie and want to get into humble bundle. Aside from that there is no financial incentive to support Linux. Lots of devs jumped on the linux train due to the promise of SteamOS but those efforts appear to have been largely wasted.

ekianjo 12y ago
> Lots of devs jumped on the linux train due to the promise of SteamOS but those efforts appear to have been largely wasted. wasted? It's funny how efforts can be wasted when the actual OS you refer to is not even released yet (still in beta). Ler's see once it comes out.
- forrestthewoods 12y ago
  Oh they're totally wasted. And the longer it takes the OS to come out, assuming it ever does and I'm doubtful it will, the more effort is wasted. There are games coming out today that had Linux support added just because of the hope of SteamOS. That effort is totally wasted. And it's wasted even if SteamOS comes out and is wildly successful in a couple of years.
  - matthewmacleod 12y ago
    That… makes no sense whatsoever? The first public release of SteamOS was less than a year ago. It was announced only shortly before that. It seems highly unlikely that there have been many games which have had Linux support added due to SteamOS in that timeframe.
    - tormeh 12y ago
      Some games have, and remember that purchases of legacy games are negligible to publishers. I think 90% of sales are in the first two weeks or some similar extreme statistic.

anon4 12y ago

> But the masses will probably never get to hold that controller. That's really sad.

shmerl 12y ago
I'm not sure where that commenter (Qzukk) got the info. It sounds simply false. So I wouldn't really get his word for it.
- cwyers 12y ago
  Yeah, Windows OEMs have been allowed to do pretty much whatever the hell they've wanted with the OS since before the dawn of time. Heck, does anyone remember the Packard Bell Navigator? This is old hat.
- anon4 12y ago
  Even if you account for Valve Time, Steam OS seems completely dead, after Valve got what they wanted from MS. And I have a hard time believing a for-profit company would invest in development of an open product just because "open and libre is better for people than closed". Companies don't exist to make the lives of people good.
  - listic 12y ago
    For those of us that have been living under a rock: what did Valve get from MS and exactly why did Steam OS become 'dead'?
    - lmedinas 12y ago
      Have you read the article ? quote from article: "Let's be honest, SteamOS is done. Steam got exactly what they wanted from Microsoft and dropped it like a hot potato (so sorry, you'll never get to use that cool controller). <...> Hell, they're probably begging them to let them advertise their Geek Squad services to "optimize" the experience and install that $5 program for $100. But no, the Microsoft Experience is inviolate, the holiest of holies, eternally immutable. No matter how much hatred it gets, it Must. Not. Be. Changed . And then Alienware ships a Windows 8 PC that boots to Steam instead of Metro."

shmerl 12y ago

The major breakthrough should be coming with OpenGL-next. Until that time the situation will be quirky. I wonder how long it will take to draft it though.

EpicEng 12y ago
I think most will maintain a healthy cynicism of this until it is shown to be true. Remember 3.0?
- shmerl 12y ago
  They must have learned from the previous experience by this time. Plus there are more players this time who actively want to make it right. It's surprising that it didn't happen before, but I guess there simply wasn't enough initiative.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Apple rescued them from the previous experience. If iPhone hadn't happened with its OpenGL ES 1.0 hardware implementation driving game studios to reconsider it, OpenGL would have been dead by now.

zamalek 12y ago

This touches on a concern of mine: > driver situation Completely anecdotal: I remember a few years back, when I was much younger trying to get drivers working for XOrg and compiz. I couldn't even manage a smooth GLGears. I botched my installation multiple times with no indication of how to fix it. Fast forward a few years and we have open source drivers that actually work. Install Ubuntu, compiz works. Lovely, now maybe I see what the game situation is like. I dig through the app store and find that game with the Tux luge. 2FPS. So I dig around in settings and find the option to install the "non-free" drivers. Install them and I get my buttery-smooth 60FPS, I will continue to get harassed about that fact that I'm scum who installs closed-source software for the foreseeable future, by the OS. I can live with that. So how would a 14 year old wanting to play games on Linux see this? Firstly, he'd install a game such as Borderlands and try it out. He hits a wall with dreadful framerate. One of two things, he goes back to a pirated copy of Windows (most likely) or somehow finds out he needs the vendor kernel module: He pulls down the compiler tools, which could take up to an hour in 3rd world countries (first-hand experience). He then goes through the process of changing the init level to 2, compiling the driver shim and installing it. He then reboots his PC and XOrg crashes. Back to Windows or... He discovers the Ubuntu automatic installer. Excellent! Just a few clicks and... "non-free?" Does this mean I have to pay for it? Will I need my parents' credit card? Why is there a warning sign? Am I doing something wrong? Could this damage my hardware? Let's say he figures it all out and wants to play some MP3s while he games... It's friction the whole way. This is a very severe case of getting your message mixed up with extremism. The situation of people using Linux is always better than the situation of them using something like Windows, even if they do have to use some non-free components to do so. You can't change the world overnight, baby steps. /rant

shmerl 12y ago
Linux introduces a healthy level of distrust to closed drivers - which is good. It doesn't mean they can't be used, but being aware about downsides is a good thing.
- zamalek 12y ago
  Ok let me use another analogy here. You have organised this conference. You have an audience of millions of Windows users. It's likely once-in-a-lifetime for the majority of them. You are going to give them a hands-on presentation detailing the value of free software and Linux, you will have their undivided attention for a week. One problem: the organiser fell through with the chairs. There are unassembled ones ready to go, but the company who made those parts require that their guys assemble the chairs. You have some real smart fellas around that figured out how to assemble the chairs, only it's not perfect and there's a bit sticking into your butt. So you start off the event with everyone standing their respective venues, no chairs in sight. You start off like this: "We had a problem with the chairs. If you don't want to sit on the dirty floor you'll need to use one of these chairs one of our guys put together." (Not telling them about the bit sticking into their butt, which you don't) "We can get the manufacturer to build the chairs for you, however, because we don't know how they did it we don't know if the chairs will break. If it breaks you could snap your spine, turning you into a paraplegic." "Or you could remain standing, or sit on the floor." How many people will walk out right there and then? Would you? Some people, who no have reason to trust you over the manufacturer (keep that in mind), might use the ones your guys made. After a day sitting with a pokey bit in your butt, what would you do? If you had a fully functional chair how long would you stick around for? Who provided that chair? What have you just done to your potential audience? The message is important, maybe one day people will understand but never if this hardline approach is maintained. An honest appraisal of each option is needed for users, up-front during the installation process. They must not go in search of it: - Open source drivers: poor performance, very stable, likely to not crash. - Proprietary drivers: high performance, we don't know if you should trust them, if something goes wrong there is nothing we can do. > Change always comes bearing gifts. ~Price Pritchett

jason46 12y ago

I think witcher2 is a good example of how good gaming can be on linux, I had very good frame rates and the game looks amazing. I was playing this with an nvidia card using nvidia drivers. But as the article points out, we are at the mercy of the developers supporting OpenGl which there is apparently not a large motivation to do so.

lmedinas 12y ago
Exactly, when the port is good quality then people get a good experience. I can tell the same about Blizzard games on OSX or Civilization V on Linux. I also still remember about America's Army a decade ago was also a great port which afaik as done by Ryan "icculus" Gordon. Usually these people have a lot of experience porting Windows games to Linux/OSX.
zanny 12y ago
The Witcher 2 port is a proprietary WIne like wrapper around DirectX that reinterprets it into OpenGL. The Linux performance of Witcher 2 is abyssal, usually half or worse the framerate on Windows.

alkonaut 12y ago

Should we really be hoping for Linux gaming? If anything, we should hope for non-windows gaming, if that is what we are after (saving on licenses etc). It feels like a lot of what's holding Linux gaming back is inherent to Linux (fragmentation for example), as well as layered security. I'm no expert, and maybe it's been tried, but wouldn't it be easier to compete with windows using a platform with less security (faster driver model)? That is, a boot-to-gaming console OS for x86? It would run som form of modified Linux kernel or other free OS, but it wouldn't be "desktop Linux" with X11, kde/gnome etc. I still don't believe in seeing AAA titles all launch for Linux, at least not while hardware vendors struggle to keep drivers working on windows (and barely succeed).

aaron-lebo 12y ago
How different is what you are talking about from the Steambox?
- vlunkr 12y ago
  SteamOS is essentially just a layer on top of Debian. It has Steam installed and some drivers, but underneath it's just Linux. OP is talking about about something that is more dedicated to games. It could be a modified Linux or something from scratch, but it wouldn't just be a layer on top of something else.
zanny 12y ago
> fragmentation for example Steam on Linux is only sanctioned to work on Ubuntu. There is no fragmentation in Steam on Linux. Any other OS that is distributing Steam is doing so at their own risk. > It would run som form of modified Linux kernel or other free OS, but it wouldn't be "desktop Linux" with X11, kde/gnome etc. Well, one, you need some kind of display server. Android, Windows, and even the consoles have one. Wayland is replacing X11 because its a slow bloated piece of shit, but even then if you wanted a "gaming OS" you would end up using Linux kernel + drivers + Wayland + EGL instead. And that is fine, its a full software stack with nothing else tacked on. And I honestly have no idea why Valve includes Gnome on the release images of SteamOS. Nothing stops you from having X just run Steam directly, with no other programs or desktops or anything. You can already do that yourself.

BuildTheRobots 12y ago

Anecdotal flipside: Saw Max Payne on Steam and thought I'd relive some of my childhood. Bought it, downloaded it and found it was ni-on impossible to install on windows 7. Linux + wine and it worked flawlessly and first time.

zanny 12y ago

So I am like the school yard reject here. I own most of the games on the port report list, I run a 7870 on radeonSI, and I have a pretty good experience overall. Framerates are of course not there, but I buy the hardware hoping that AMD will get there eventually. Only way to do so if someone generating market pressure for it to happen. The thing is, Valve is fucking up SteamOS royally. If they hadn't messed up, they would have had strict requirements on games entering the system, and spent real money paying developers to port in advance of the OS launch, and they would have actually been ready to launch it when they said they would. You know, around now. All those small form factor PCs now shipping Windows that were meant to be Steamboxes are a testament to Valve screwing the pooch. And it is entirely their fault for not being ready, like they could just say "hey, were making a controller and porting our games to SDL2, everyone else you're on your own" and then drop the ball on the controller and still not have Portal 2 out of beta on Linux. Great leading by example there. That, and SteamOS proper is just a cobbled together mutant of Debian, rather than a proper OS - seriously, why the fuck is Gnome on it? That is pre alpha software for a console OS release, where all that should be on the image is a kernel, some drivers, a display server (preferrably Wayland), the Steam runtime, Steam itself, and fuck all else because its for consoles and console users are only going to run Steam on it, especially when it has a browser and all the other dodads like voice chat and music playing they have integrated. So yeah, the article is mostly right - Valve used it as a ruse to get Microsoft to cooperate on promises about future releases easing off the Windows store. They probably got what they wanted, and SteamOS will become Episode 3 or HL 3 vaporware for years.

nickstinemates 12y ago

Avid Linux user. The thing I hate most? Multi-monitor. At home I have 8 (4x2), making it all one big desktop is not (as far as I can tell) possible using any driver. Gaming has been great over the past year.

adwf 12y ago

Anecdotally: I have a 7-8 year old CPU (Q6600) with a 4 year old GPU (GTX 460 SE). I'm running Tropico 5, Civ 5, CS:GO, XCom, TF2 - all great. The only game I've had even slight problems with is Borderlands 2 and I'd probably have needed to turn down the settings in Windows anyway. The problem here isn't SteamOS, it's AMD and their crappy drivers. If you're on Nvidia, everything is good. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon either, I've bought only Nvidia for the last 8 years specifically because this is a known issue on Linux.