5 ms·

I don't have all these different kinds of clothing. (And no I don't want to own them either). Am I the only one who thinks this game should be played the other

I don't have all these different kinds of clothing. (And no I don't want to own them either). Am I the only one who thinks this game should be played the other way around? If a company needs my services, they should impress me. I am not a model and I am sure as hell not a wage slave. I don't do CVs, and I sure as hell don't talk to HR. I am performing a necessary duty, if I can fill my role then my other traits will be catered for. From my experience some basic self respect ensures you only end up with good jobs. The positions you have to bend for are not worth bending for imho.

kasey_junk 12y ago
That really depends on the hiring environment you are working in. Right now, in most of the tech centers around, it is an employees market. This is not always true and it can be different for different tech centers, technologies, and employees. So sure, while this is working for you right now, keep it in mind in the future when this bubble bursts. I do find it interesting that an adult with professional career in the western world doesn't own at least 1 set of "professional" clothes. What do you wear to weddings and funerals?
- mrottenkolber 12y ago
  I didn't say I don't own professional clothes. For me its a shirt--the ones you iron--a suit jacket and jeans, no tie. It's just that I am not willing to compromise on my interpretation of "business attire". I consider it quite offensive to openly criticize based on looks. If anybody would consider my jeans unfitting then that's their problem as I have a very good reason to wear jeans (exclusively). I wear clothes because I like them and I consider them fitting. On weddings and funerals: Depends on the wedding or funeral, chances are I wont be going to "suit-weddings" and on funerals I reckon the dead person respected me well enough to trust my choice of attire. > So sure, while this is working for you right now, keep it in mind in the future when this bubble bursts. I am not in a bubble. :) I have chosen a profession which is unlikely to die off very soon, I invested a lot into being good in my profession and when my industry is no longer my market then I am in the wrong industry. Edit: For context, I am not an employee, I am a consultant. I don't have a boss, I only have customers. I was an employee before and I didn't like it.
  - couchand 12y ago
    I am not in a bubble. :) I don't know if the smiley is supposed to indicate this comment is a joke, but you must be aware that this comment is a joke, right?
  - SnacksOnAPlane 12y ago
    This is just my opinion, but I think every guy should own a suit. Sometimes you want to class it up for various reasons, whether to show respect, or indicate status. When I'm giving a presentation at work, I class up my look a little bit, and I think it helps people take me more seriously.
    - Eiriksmal 12y ago
      Especially when you look like you're not even old enough to buy a beer. The apparent age difference of me wearing an untucked polo with jeans and me wearing a decent suit replete with nice dress shirt and classy belt is quite interesting.
logfromblammo 12y ago
That attitude is a bit arrogant, and will only serve you well as long as potential employers have little alternative but to put up with it. But it is still less arrogant by far than the attitude of most employers with open positions that I have encountered. The "game" should be played with equal respect offered by both sides. Both parties are vetting the other before entering into a potentially long-term relationship. It is not the time to play stupid dominance games. I expect that equal effort should be expended on trying to convince me to work there as is spent trying to ascertain whether I am qualified to do so. If I spend a full day of my time jumping through hoops, I expect to see the company sacrificing a significant effort in exchange, trying to convince me to work there. If you hear even an inkling of a suggestion that the company is trying to "avoid wasting interviewers' time," just say, "thank you for this, but I wouldn't want any more of anyone's time to be wasted," exit as gracefully as possible, and cross that company off your list. Then do the rest of us a favor, and post a negative review of the interview. Time spent on recruiting is an investment that might not pay off, never a waste. And nobody involved should be disrespectful of the other's time or preferences.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  I thought interviewing was a negotiation, you trying to get the best deal, them trying to convince you to work for peanuts. You meet in the middle, or you both walk away. All the talk of respect and time wasting and efficiency is missing the point. Arrogance is a tactic and if it works for you at your level, then more power to you.
  - kasey_junk 12y ago
    When I'm on either side of the desk, I don't assume that it is the employers job to get a candidate to work for peanuts. The marginal cost difference between what a good candidate is worth to me, and what I can effectively negotiate is tiny in comparison to getting the candidates I want. That is, it is much more expensive for me to get the wrong candidate, than to pay a little too much for a good one.
    - 12y ago

kasey_junk 12y ago

That really depends on the hiring environment you are working in. Right now, in most of the tech centers around, it is an employees market. This is not always true and it can be different for different tech centers, technologies, and employees. So sure, while this is working for you right now, keep it in mind in the future when this bubble bursts. I do find it interesting that an adult with professional career in the western world doesn't own at least 1 set of "professional" clothes. What do you wear to weddings and funerals?

mrottenkolber 12y ago
I didn't say I don't own professional clothes. For me its a shirt--the ones you iron--a suit jacket and jeans, no tie. It's just that I am not willing to compromise on my interpretation of "business attire". I consider it quite offensive to openly criticize based on looks. If anybody would consider my jeans unfitting then that's their problem as I have a very good reason to wear jeans (exclusively). I wear clothes because I like them and I consider them fitting. On weddings and funerals: Depends on the wedding or funeral, chances are I wont be going to "suit-weddings" and on funerals I reckon the dead person respected me well enough to trust my choice of attire. > So sure, while this is working for you right now, keep it in mind in the future when this bubble bursts. I am not in a bubble. :) I have chosen a profession which is unlikely to die off very soon, I invested a lot into being good in my profession and when my industry is no longer my market then I am in the wrong industry. Edit: For context, I am not an employee, I am a consultant. I don't have a boss, I only have customers. I was an employee before and I didn't like it.
- couchand 12y ago
  I am not in a bubble. :) I don't know if the smiley is supposed to indicate this comment is a joke, but you must be aware that this comment is a joke, right?
- SnacksOnAPlane 12y ago
  This is just my opinion, but I think every guy should own a suit. Sometimes you want to class it up for various reasons, whether to show respect, or indicate status. When I'm giving a presentation at work, I class up my look a little bit, and I think it helps people take me more seriously.
  - Eiriksmal 12y ago
    Especially when you look like you're not even old enough to buy a beer. The apparent age difference of me wearing an untucked polo with jeans and me wearing a decent suit replete with nice dress shirt and classy belt is quite interesting.

logfromblammo 12y ago

That attitude is a bit arrogant, and will only serve you well as long as potential employers have little alternative but to put up with it. But it is still less arrogant by far than the attitude of most employers with open positions that I have encountered. The "game" should be played with equal respect offered by both sides. Both parties are vetting the other before entering into a potentially long-term relationship. It is not the time to play stupid dominance games. I expect that equal effort should be expended on trying to convince me to work there as is spent trying to ascertain whether I am qualified to do so. If I spend a full day of my time jumping through hoops, I expect to see the company sacrificing a significant effort in exchange, trying to convince me to work there. If you hear even an inkling of a suggestion that the company is trying to "avoid wasting interviewers' time," just say, "thank you for this, but I wouldn't want any more of anyone's time to be wasted," exit as gracefully as possible, and cross that company off your list. Then do the rest of us a favor, and post a negative review of the interview. Time spent on recruiting is an investment that might not pay off, never a waste. And nobody involved should be disrespectful of the other's time or preferences.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I thought interviewing was a negotiation, you trying to get the best deal, them trying to convince you to work for peanuts. You meet in the middle, or you both walk away. All the talk of respect and time wasting and efficiency is missing the point. Arrogance is a tactic and if it works for you at your level, then more power to you.
- kasey_junk 12y ago
  When I'm on either side of the desk, I don't assume that it is the employers job to get a candidate to work for peanuts. The marginal cost difference between what a good candidate is worth to me, and what I can effectively negotiate is tiny in comparison to getting the candidates I want. That is, it is much more expensive for me to get the wrong candidate, than to pay a little too much for a good one.
  - 12y ago