4 ms·

But surely that's built into the structure of the legal system? People I do business with don't routinely defraud me of amounts too small to sue over: why can't

by lukev 12y ago

But surely that's built into the structure of the legal system? People I do business with don't routinely defraud me of amounts too small to sue over: why can't the same legal reasoning apply to these cases?

baddox 12y ago
One reason people (and particularly businesses) tend to not defraud you over amounts too small to sue over is that the value of continued business and/or word of mouth is larger than the one-time payout of defrauding you. This effect is obviously diminished when dealing with the state, since the difference in physical power between the two parties in the transaction is immense, and the idea of you ceasing to do business with the state is mostly nonsensical.
- eru 12y ago
  > [...] and the idea of you ceasing to do business with the state is mostly nonsensical. Why? You can move away. (Or, more likely, a bad reputations will deter people and businesses considering moving in.)
  - zaroth 12y ago
    States which are less likely to rob their citizens should see an influx of people and businesses. But then again, most people just assume it won't happen to them. The people that are actively managing to reduce this particular risk may not be the peeps you actually want moving in. So I guess in a perverse way there's a disincentive to fix the problem in just certain jurisdictions.
  - baddox 12y ago
    All I mean is that the cost of moving to the jurisdiction of another government is generally massive compared to the cost of switching business partners in most situations.
    - lsaferite 12y ago
      And when all the state you can move to are like this to some degree or other? Moving countries is not simple and certainly out of reach of the majority of the people these laws impact.
  - Solarsail 12y ago
    Do people actually behave along these lines? Vast majority of people in most places live and die within the same region they were born in. Most people who move countries do so to follow jobs around or get new jobs. The number of people who select countries (that I've heard, at least) for political reasons is negligible. Tho I could see the argument in the extreme case. Cuba and Iraq don't exactly have sizable numbers of immigrants, with their fairly poor political reputations.
    - eru 12y ago
      The effects are mostly on the margin, but they are there. Eg when I might be on the fence between two jobs, so I take the politics into discount.
Floegipoky 12y ago
> People I do business with don't routinely defraud me of amounts too small to sue over Then you're lucky, because it happens all the time in a lot of industries.
adventured 12y ago
They don't do that to you because they're concerned for their reputations, for the most part. I have seen business people that operate like that however, with little regard for their reputation. They screw other people over a lot, and are willing to run the calculation on the cost to sue them vs what the property or contract or whatever is worth.

by lukev 12y ago

baddox 12y ago

One reason people (and particularly businesses) tend to not defraud you over amounts too small to sue over is that the value of continued business and/or word of mouth is larger than the one-time payout of defrauding you. This effect is obviously diminished when dealing with the state, since the difference in physical power between the two parties in the transaction is immense, and the idea of you ceasing to do business with the state is mostly nonsensical.

eru 12y ago
> [...] and the idea of you ceasing to do business with the state is mostly nonsensical. Why? You can move away. (Or, more likely, a bad reputations will deter people and businesses considering moving in.)
- zaroth 12y ago
  States which are less likely to rob their citizens should see an influx of people and businesses. But then again, most people just assume it won't happen to them. The people that are actively managing to reduce this particular risk may not be the peeps you actually want moving in. So I guess in a perverse way there's a disincentive to fix the problem in just certain jurisdictions.
- baddox 12y ago
  All I mean is that the cost of moving to the jurisdiction of another government is generally massive compared to the cost of switching business partners in most situations.
  - lsaferite 12y ago
    And when all the state you can move to are like this to some degree or other? Moving countries is not simple and certainly out of reach of the majority of the people these laws impact.
- Solarsail 12y ago
  Do people actually behave along these lines? Vast majority of people in most places live and die within the same region they were born in. Most people who move countries do so to follow jobs around or get new jobs. The number of people who select countries (that I've heard, at least) for political reasons is negligible. Tho I could see the argument in the extreme case. Cuba and Iraq don't exactly have sizable numbers of immigrants, with their fairly poor political reputations.
  - eru 12y ago
    The effects are mostly on the margin, but they are there. Eg when I might be on the fence between two jobs, so I take the politics into discount.

Floegipoky 12y ago

> People I do business with don't routinely defraud me of amounts too small to sue over Then you're lucky, because it happens all the time in a lot of industries.

adventured 12y ago

They don't do that to you because they're concerned for their reputations, for the most part. I have seen business people that operate like that however, with little regard for their reputation. They screw other people over a lot, and are willing to run the calculation on the cost to sue them vs what the property or contract or whatever is worth.