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> “If you want the car, and you really want to put it in your fleet, let me know — I’ll fight for it,” Mr. McMurtry said, addressing law enforcement officials o

> “If you want the car, and you really want to put it in your fleet, let me know — I’ll fight for it,” Mr. McMurtry said, addressing law enforcement officials on the video. “If you don’t let me know that, I’ll try and resolve it real quick through a settlement and get cash for the car, get the tow fee paid off, get some money for it.” > In an interview, Mr. McMurtry acknowledged that he exercises a great deal of discretion. “The first offense, if it’s not anything too serious, we’ll come up with a dollar amount, depending on the value of the car and the seriousness of the offense,” he said. “I try to come up with a dollar amount that’s not so high that they can’t afford it, but not so low that it doesn’t have an impact. If it’s a second offense, they don’t get it back.” What a fucking asshole. That guy is a thug stealing from the public, and he doesn't even try to hide it. He even admits that he's using the practice to impose fines without due process, in direct violation of the constitution. He's a criminal, and should be treated as such. > Prosecutors estimated that between 50 to 80 percent of the cars seized were driven by someone other than the owner, which sometimes means a parent or grandparent loses their car. They're even aware that they're stealing from innocent people, and that they'd likely never get any sort of seizure upheld through having to actually file charges. Criminals, all of them.

raarts 12y ago
Doesn't this completely go against the trias politica principle? The police effectively playing judge and determining the penalty, without due process and even worse, for their own benefit? Frankly I'm at a loss for words here. It's wrong on every imaginable level. The most worrying to me is, that there seem to be so many people who do NOT see anything wrong with it. Do so many people miss a basic grasp of right and wrong, of the building blocks of our society? And what are they doing in the police force?
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  I'm very disturbed by the callousness with which he brags about violating the constitution to get extra-legal justice. I'm also confused why people always (largely rhetorically) wonder why Americans don't trust officials and are withdrawing from the political process when there are ample examples of officials bragging about their illegal activities without any consequence.
- PythonicAlpha 12y ago
  I agree, that right and wrong are the building blocks of society -- of all societies. But you can also see in history and in other nations, what the result is, when those building blocks are missing or when they are repeatedly violated. That is something that makes me fear for the US. When they train those people, that shall uphold right and wrong to be wrongdoers, when legislation fails, because there are to many interest groups, when even judges are judging for money .... the way downhill will be steep! Already today, as others also posted, the trust into officials is rapidly going downhill in society. Broader and broader parts of society disband legal living, because legality is also often only an excuse for wrong doing. The officials give the example and the complete nation goes downhill step for step.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
adventured 12y ago
Government systems that become as large as those in the US, inevitably devolve into gangster tactics. Nothing can ever stop such an outcome, it occurs the same way throughout history. Once so many laws and regulations are on the books, all people become criminals by default; then with so much money floating around it just becomes a matter of stealing it for the people with the guns and free pass to use that force with little to no consequences. The notion that you could give a government such extreme power, and inflate to such a vast size, and then not suffer these kinds of consequences, is worse than naive - and yet a huge number of Americans think the government needs to get larger and more powerful.
mdesq 12y ago
A large number of them are definitely criminals. Unfortunately, it's politically risky for legislators to make even the slightest criticism of "our fine men and women in uniform." Maybe it's time to get rid of sovereign immunity for the police and make them personally liable for infractions on the rights of the citizens they're allegedly serving. In the last 30 years, it's remarkable how much more police forces nationwide have turned into paramilitary organizations.
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  I actually think it's simpler: create a special kind of tort citizens can bring against police departments for illegal policing (or other crimes against citizens) which is funded (at least partially) out of the bonuses of the officers in question, and their supervising command staff, all the way up to the chief (regardless of direct command staff involvement, as an infraction against citizens is a sign of negligence); restructure officer pay by cutting it to 60% of the current value and giving them 50% back in bonuses, which can be phrased as a 10% raise; require that any officer which loses their entire bonus for the year through this mechanism be dismissed for being a liability and not be rehireable anywhere in the state. You'd probably also want to add in a law that created a special crime (or even just enhancement to suit damages) akin to evidence tampering for failing to create, lying in, losing, or damaging police records once a suit has been brought or is brought later and it's discovered those records were tampered with or negligently handled. (You could probably even tack in a requirement that police departments not hire officers which are fired from other precincts or who resign within X days of a scandal or as part of a settlement to that scandal.) Enough states have initiative laws that you could probably pass it based on popular sentiment. In the state I'm from (WA), the legislature requires 2/3rds vote to change an initiative within the first 2 years. This provides enough political cover for inclined state legislators to support it, as all they have to do is do nothing because "the will of the voters". It's also politically dangerous to overturn an initiative within those two years, because it's going to be phrased by the press as suppressing the "will of the people" or what have you. This structure is actually how many of us are paid (a base rate, a bonus for a good job, and being fired if we can't do the job right) and only requires that the majority of voters think we should hold police accountable for crimes. I don't think all police officers are trying to be bad people, but I do think that the system is set up where they're basically forced to join in conspiracies to commit and cover-up crimes against citizens. There are, however, lots of little ways we can change the system to make it more reasonable and punish bad actors.

raarts 12y ago

Doesn't this completely go against the trias politica principle? The police effectively playing judge and determining the penalty, without due process and even worse, for their own benefit? Frankly I'm at a loss for words here. It's wrong on every imaginable level. The most worrying to me is, that there seem to be so many people who do NOT see anything wrong with it. Do so many people miss a basic grasp of right and wrong, of the building blocks of our society? And what are they doing in the police force?

ObviousScience 12y ago
I'm very disturbed by the callousness with which he brags about violating the constitution to get extra-legal justice. I'm also confused why people always (largely rhetorically) wonder why Americans don't trust officials and are withdrawing from the political process when there are ample examples of officials bragging about their illegal activities without any consequence.
PythonicAlpha 12y ago
I agree, that right and wrong are the building blocks of society -- of all societies. But you can also see in history and in other nations, what the result is, when those building blocks are missing or when they are repeatedly violated. That is something that makes me fear for the US. When they train those people, that shall uphold right and wrong to be wrongdoers, when legislation fails, because there are to many interest groups, when even judges are judging for money .... the way downhill will be steep! Already today, as others also posted, the trust into officials is rapidly going downhill in society. Broader and broader parts of society disband legal living, because legality is also often only an excuse for wrong doing. The officials give the example and the complete nation goes downhill step for step.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

adventured 12y ago

Government systems that become as large as those in the US, inevitably devolve into gangster tactics. Nothing can ever stop such an outcome, it occurs the same way throughout history. Once so many laws and regulations are on the books, all people become criminals by default; then with so much money floating around it just becomes a matter of stealing it for the people with the guns and free pass to use that force with little to no consequences. The notion that you could give a government such extreme power, and inflate to such a vast size, and then not suffer these kinds of consequences, is worse than naive - and yet a huge number of Americans think the government needs to get larger and more powerful.

mdesq 12y ago

A large number of them are definitely criminals. Unfortunately, it's politically risky for legislators to make even the slightest criticism of "our fine men and women in uniform." Maybe it's time to get rid of sovereign immunity for the police and make them personally liable for infractions on the rights of the citizens they're allegedly serving. In the last 30 years, it's remarkable how much more police forces nationwide have turned into paramilitary organizations.

ObviousScience 12y ago
I actually think it's simpler: create a special kind of tort citizens can bring against police departments for illegal policing (or other crimes against citizens) which is funded (at least partially) out of the bonuses of the officers in question, and their supervising command staff, all the way up to the chief (regardless of direct command staff involvement, as an infraction against citizens is a sign of negligence); restructure officer pay by cutting it to 60% of the current value and giving them 50% back in bonuses, which can be phrased as a 10% raise; require that any officer which loses their entire bonus for the year through this mechanism be dismissed for being a liability and not be rehireable anywhere in the state. You'd probably also want to add in a law that created a special crime (or even just enhancement to suit damages) akin to evidence tampering for failing to create, lying in, losing, or damaging police records once a suit has been brought or is brought later and it's discovered those records were tampered with or negligently handled. (You could probably even tack in a requirement that police departments not hire officers which are fired from other precincts or who resign within X days of a scandal or as part of a settlement to that scandal.) Enough states have initiative laws that you could probably pass it based on popular sentiment. In the state I'm from (WA), the legislature requires 2/3rds vote to change an initiative within the first 2 years. This provides enough political cover for inclined state legislators to support it, as all they have to do is do nothing because "the will of the voters". It's also politically dangerous to overturn an initiative within those two years, because it's going to be phrased by the press as suppressing the "will of the people" or what have you. This structure is actually how many of us are paid (a base rate, a bonus for a good job, and being fired if we can't do the job right) and only requires that the majority of voters think we should hold police accountable for crimes. I don't think all police officers are trying to be bad people, but I do think that the system is set up where they're basically forced to join in conspiracies to commit and cover-up crimes against citizens. There are, however, lots of little ways we can change the system to make it more reasonable and punish bad actors.