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The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
- SixSigma 12y agoTo get a flavour of Stoic philosophy you can listen to some short readings of Seneca's letters, they are only a couple of minutes for each one. http://www.lettersfromastoic.net/ http://www.lettersfromastoic.net/
- droopyEyelids 12y agoIf you really dig Meditations, I recommend reading a couple translations side by side. They're all subtly different, and I find it helps me get a better grasp on the ideas Marcus was expressing to see how different people translated. Here are some discussions on the different translations: http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/137knd/survey_best_meditations_by_marucs_aurelius/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/137knd/survey_best... http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/jaqm1/whats_the_best_translation_of_marcus_aurelius/ http://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/jaqm1/whats_the_best_...
- vlowther 12y agoA better (if more time consuming) option is to learn Latin and read it in the original.
- WallWextra 12y agoWeren't they written in greek?
- bshimmin 12y agoThey were. But hey, learning Latin would give you the ability to read Lucretius in the original, and his "De Rerum Natura" is quite an interesting contrast to the Stoicism of "Meditations".
- jeangenie 12y agoDefinitely Latin. By the time Aurelius was emperor the Greeks had already been overtaken by the Romans. Edit: Incidentally, a simple Google would've shown it was written in Greek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations Never trust people on the internet, even yourself.
- mhartl 12y agoThe Romans conquered the Greeks politically, but culturally the influence went mainly in the other direction, and in fact the Meditations (per my comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8580261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8580261) were written in Greek.
- xaritas 12y agoAs Horace wrote around 14 BC: Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio. - Ep. II.i.156 "Greece, once conquered, herself conquered the artless victor, and planted the banner of civilization in the farmlands of Rome." I have translated freely and taken considerable license. By Aurelius' time, familiarity with Greek for the ruling classes was a given; as a matter of preference, it is a more supple language and probably more comfortable to use for putting abstract reasoning to words.
- peterfirefly 12y agoDefinitely Greek.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- jfmercer 12y agoMarcus Aurelius wrote the Meditations in Greek, which was the language of philosophy in the ancient Mediterranean. It was not uncommon at the time for wealthy Romans to have Greek slave-teachers ("pedagoges") instruct their children in the Greek language, as well as other subjects.
- mhartl 12y agoI once had the same thought, only to discover (as another commenter speculated) that Marcus wrote the Meditations in the common (Koine) Greek of the day. [1] [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations
- dllthomas 12y agoPretending you'd written "Greek"... Then you'd only be getting one translation - yours. With the amount of context that goes into a good translation, I'm not actually certain it's better for something like this that's more philosophical than artistic.
- niels_olson 12y agoI highly recommend William Irvine's A Guide to the Good Life, then reading Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, et al. As an aside: I listened to Irvine on audiobook immediately after listening to Sherry Turkle's Alone Together. It was like reading about a disease and then the treatment. Recommend, would do again.
- niels_olson 12y agoAlso, the meditations are available on LibreVox.
- teddyh 12y agoLink: https://librivox.org/the-meditations-of-marcus-aurelius/ https://librivox.org/the-meditations-of-marcus-aurelius/
- jacobolus 12y agoI’d recommend skipping Irvine’s book and just going straight to the sources. I didn’t feel like he added much, and thought his book was poorly structured and overly didactic; too close to the style of the popular self-help book for my taste. I also felt like he projected many of his own opinions/conclusions back on the authors he was discussing. Maybe my impression is biased by the uninspiring quality of his prose on a sentence-by-sentence and paragraph-by-paragraph level though: I’m pretty sensitive to bland fuzzy writing.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- jedc 12y agoI disagree. I thought that his book framed the larger issues of stoicism well, so I could better understand the source material as the next step. (Particularly since some of the translations use language that's not particularly accessible).
- sfgc 12y agoI agree completely. The subject matter in the book is worth review but I found his style so distracting it was difficult to finish. It has the feel of a first writing assignment where the suggested format was followed very closely chapter after chapter. Not a book you get lost in reading.
- jjbohn 12y agoThis has become my preferred translation. It's a great modern translation and uses very approachable language. To me it reads much more like a journal than the other available translations. http://amzn.to/1xy6LYZ http://amzn.to/1xy6LYZ
- jjbohn 12y agoSide note. I use to read a meditation or two every morning as part of my morning routine. I've fallen out of the habit but am going to start again. There's some really great thoughts in here.
- elwell 12y agoI like that translation as well. There are some really powerful thoughts in there. It always puts me in a more centered mindset.
- andyl 12y agoI also like this translation. Some passages describe so well the people and situations that I encounter every day. Plus ca change...
- omarish 12y agoAgreed. I've read a couple and this is my favorite translation.
- gatehouse 12y agoSeems like the Kindle link on that page is to a different version, this looks to me like the correct Kindle version: http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-New-Translation-Modern-Library-ebook/dp/B000FC1JAI http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-New-Translation-Modern-Lib...
- ams6110 12y agoThanks for the recommendation (really) but please don't use URL shorteners.
- voltagex_ 12y ago
- rokhayakebe 12y agoAnyone who loves Marcus's Meditations will be blown away by Epictetus.
- rjammala 12y ago+100 http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html
- benrhughes 12y agoI completely agree. It's not surprising though: Discourses and The Enchiridion were delivered as lectures; Meditations is a personal diary. Marcus was obviously heavily influenced by Epictetus, and at times manages to state some of his ideas more poetically (esp in the Hays translation). Overall though, The Enchiridion is a much better base for Stoic philosophy. It's short, acerbic and almost every section can send you off into deep thought. Meditations is mostly interesting as an example of someone trying to life a Stoic life - it shows Marcus' failures, his attempts to conquer his fears. It's well worth reading, but you'll learn more from Epictetus. Edit: for Epictetus, I prefer the George Long over the Elizabeth Carter: http://www.ptypes.com/enchiridion.html http://www.ptypes.com/enchiridion.html
- rokhayakebe 12y agoEvery section can send you off into deep thought I read Discourses, and frankly I was not aware of Enchiridion until today. I can that every sentence or paragraph of Discourses got me to pause, and think hard.
- molsongolden 12y agoI have a copy on my nightstand that I read semi-frequently. It's interesting to keep in mind that he wrote them as a personal journal and never intended for his writings to be read by a broader audience. He frequently chastises himself and one of my favorite reflections comes from the beginning of Book V. The translation from the OP isn't the best but it's all I have on hand: "In the morning when thou risest unwillingly, let this thought be present- I am rising to the work of a human being. Why then am I dissatisfied if I am going to do the things for which I exist and for which I was brought into the world? Or have I been made for this, to lie in the bed-clothes and keep myself warm?- But this is more pleasant.- Dost thou exist then to take thy pleasure, and not at all for action or exertion? Dost thou not see the little plants, the little birds, the ants, the spiders, the bees working together to put in order their several parts of the universe? And art thou unwilling to do the work of a human being, and dost thou not make haste to do that which is according to thy nature?- But it is necessary to take rest also.- It is necessary: however nature has fixed bounds to this too: she has fixed bounds both to eating and drinking, and yet thou goest beyond these bounds, beyond what is sufficient; yet in thy acts it is not so, but thou stoppest short of what thou canst do. So thou lovest not thyself, for if thou didst, thou wouldst love thy nature and her will."
- jonstewart 12y agoI, too, keep a copy on the nightstand. It's the stoic's bible.
- michaelsbradley 12y agoThose interested in Stoicism, and who are curious if and how its ideals might be "baptized" and employed in a Christian philosophy of life, ought to look into the writings of Fr. Alphonsus Rodriguez, who has been described by some as a "Christian Seneca": Practice of Perfection and Christian Virtues https://archive.org/details/PPCV-Manresa https://archive.org/details/PPCV-Manresa
- Luc 12y agoI can see from your profile that it's your thing to pipe up with Christian literature at every occasion. Don't get the impression you are providing a wonderful service here; it's very annoying to see Christianity dragged into otherwise pleasant subjects.
- Kenji 12y agoI have read about half of the book. It's a really good and philosophically inspiring read, though he has some silly convictions, like that his uncle is very modest because he does not care about the beauty of his slaves. The stark contrast of the stoic philosophy and those silly convictions fascinates me.
- ulisesrmzroche 12y agoTo be fair though, you have to keep in mind in what part of history this was written. That may have been very modest behavior in that era.
- xaritas 12y agoIndeed. Not being familiar with that particular passage, my thought would be that he means, his uncle does not consider the status-signaling property of "beautiful" (and expensive) property to have any utility. This seems in line with Stoic reasoning. I would also assume that by "slaves" he means, legal status aside, what would be called "the help" in a different era, i.e., the most visible members of a wealthy person's household and retinue. I'm sure that nobody was socially shunned because their salt-miners and ice-cutters were hideous to behold.
- quantamemnon 12y agoA variation on this theme by an Anonymous "lion" of finance has recently been digitized and put in the public domain. Here then from 1940, for your Sunday delectation is an underground classic, with a scintillating forward by American anarcho-capitalist Albert Jay Nock: Meditations in Wall Street http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b3570107;view=1up;seq=9 http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b3570107;view=1up;...
- segmondy 12y agoDefinitely a good read, You can download it in audio format, https://librivox.org/the-meditations-of-marcus-aurelius/ https://librivox.org/the-meditations-of-marcus-aurelius/ It was easier for me to just load up in my mp3 player and digest.
- DrMikeTyson 12y agoI just don't get why this is at the top of Hacker News. Should I post a fucking copy of Walden next week?
- stoic_smile 12y agoStoics are tough minded rationalists who can take the shit thrown at them by life without complaint and hopefully without compromising their integrity or mental wellbeing. You don't need to be Einstein to see that this has a huge crossover into the startup world where the stress is huge. Your ignorance and inability to make this connection is endearing if not a little worrying for your future sanity.
- grey-area 12y agoYou forgot to mention that the meditations has probably been posted several times on HN this century; it's not new to anyone (not even news), and it should really have [0167] in the title to make this clear, so that you can skip it because it's not up to the minute technology ephemera. Should I post a fucking copy of Walden next week? Sure, why not, Walden is also a great book and foundational text and raises questions about the relationship of the state to its citizens which are increasingly appropriate for people working in the global online community to consider. It's also a great read. Compared to the content of most of the links on HN, both Walden and the Meditations have more insightful commentary, and more generally applicable lessons, than most of the websites posted on here will produce over their entire lifetime.
- 3rd3 12y agoWhat kind of insight can I expect from reading this?
- nisa 12y agoCognitive Behavior Therapy is modelled after stoic principles. It's a mental model to survive hardship and stay on course no matter what is happening in your life. Another insight if you want to call it so is that the texts are 2000 years old and they still apply to daily life now.
- amelius 12y agoJust checked wikipedia [1], and found this critique: > D.A. Rees calls the Meditations "unendingly moving and inspiring", but does not offer them up as works of original philosophy. Bertrand Russell found them contradictory and inconsistent, evidence of a "tired age" where "even real goods lose their savour". Using Marcus as an example of greater Stoic philosophy, he found their ethical philosophy to contain an element of "sour grapes". "We can't be happy, but we can be good; let us therefore pretend that, so long as we are good, it doesn't matter being unhappy". Can anybody agree/disagree/comment? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations
- Kaibeezy 12y agoI'd be interested in reading more along those lines too. Anyone recommend an article or book?
- stoic_smile 12y agoHave a read of A New Stoicism by Lawrence C Becker [0]. It is quite technical in places but the introductary chapters and the conclusion will do enough to put old Bertie back in his logical positivist box. It's not as if Bertie was a slap, happy old hippy himself. [0] - http://www.amazon.com/New-Stoicism-Lawrence-C-Becker/dp/0691009643 http://www.amazon.com/New-Stoicism-Lawrence-C-Becker/dp/0691...
- jjbohn 12y agoSupposedly, The Obstacle is the Way is in the vein. I haven't read it yet; it's on my list this month though. Supposedly a fairly good read though. It's written by a big PR guy though so who knows. http://www.amazon.com/Obstacle-Way-Timeless-Turning-Triumph/dp/1591846358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415579427&sr=8-1&keywords=the+obstacle+is+the+way http://www.amazon.com/Obstacle-Way-Timeless-Turning-Triumph/...
- patfla 12y agoI read the Meditations. It was good and I enjoyed it. It has many wise things to say and it expresses itself in a 'modern' voice. The mindset doesn't seem antiquated at all. That said, it wasn't written for this kind of consumption and the book was repetitive. It took me longer to read than I 'd hoped. Marcus Aurelius spent several decades before becoming emperor as a general out on Rome's borders which for the most part must have been a miserable existence and the reason, even need, for his Stoicism seems clear. I consider it an irony of his 'wisdom' that he was the last in a line of 'good' Roman emperors who'd all been appointed by their predecessors on the basis of ability, as opposed to passed from father to son. It was probably going to be hard to continue the tradition anyway but Aurelius passed the emperor's crown to his son and the tradition was broken. His son Commodus' reign was noticeably less successful than any of the previous five appointed emperors and Commodus was assassinated after 12 years in power.
- wslh 12y agoNote: if you want the mobi/kindle/epub format you can go to: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2680 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2680
- qodeninja 12y agoThanks for sharing this. I had started reading about Philosophers years ago and almost completely forgot about it. This sparked my interest again.
- chrxn 12y agoThis translation (Long) is my favorite.
- hvass 12y agoMeditations have already been discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5160713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5160713 There are great recommendations in there if anybody wants to dive deeper into Stoicism or understand Meditations better.
- ca98am79 12y agoThis is one of the best books I have ever read - I highly recommend it. It inspired Tolstoy, Gandhi, and many many others. There were many quotes in this book that have had a deep impact on me. One I thought was interesting is this: > Live not as though there were a thousand years ahead of you. Fate is at your elbow; make yourself good while life and power are still yours. It struck me that even if Marcus Aurelius had actually lived a thousand years, he would have died a thousand years ago.
- morganf 12y agoUm. Last year, I re-read Gibbon's Decline and Fall, and my favorite chapter (written in such a funny way!) is his detailing how his wife was having sex with everyone under the sun, and everyone in Rome knew it. Except for Marcus Aurelius himself; he lived in such a bubble, he couldn't see the reality in front of his nose. He was so unable to teach his son, Commodus, that when his son became emperor... well, Commodus turned out to be one of the most cruel and evil emperors in the history of Rome. This made me question the "wisdom" of his Meditations (which, as a kid, I loved reading and whose advice I used to love): knowing this is how he lived and ruled and raised children, and those were the consequences... are we sure it's good advice? I'm not anymore. Text here: http://sacred-texts.com/cla/gibbon/01/daf01013.htm http://sacred-texts.com/cla/gibbon/01/daf01013.htm
- ubernostrum 12y agoMarcus also broke with tradition on the succession. Previously, emperors would look for someone who seemed to fit their idea of a good heir, and then adopt. Marcus broke that tradition and simply passed the throne on to his biological son, with disastrous consequences.
- Mvandenbergh 12y agoNot really tradition, the previous few generations of emperors simply didn't have any sons so they didn't have a choice.
- shire 12y agoI've been looking into this line of thinking a lot for the past year. Beautiful stuff truly.
- tempodox 12y agoNice. But I miss the original. Couldn't they have put 2 languages side by side?