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Ask HN: Founders whose startups have failed, where did life take you afterwards?
- Ixiaus 12y agoI built another one that I left (it's still going) and am now the director of software at a startup that went through the same Techstars class mine did.
- meelooo 12y agoI tried and "failed" a couple of times in the last 14 years. Having a family pushed me to decide to settle down for some time. I started working as a software engineer at Apple a week ago. The itch is still there though ;-).
- monksy 12y agoWhere do you think you went wrong and who do you think you can avoid that in the future?
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- meelooo 12y agoThe first time I picked the wrong co-founders (friends and all were engineers). The second time I picked the wrong project. The third time my co-founder died. The fourth time I wanted to do it alone but I almost burned out before my family started to send the signal that it was time for a change but I still think the tech and project are excellent though.
- jjoonathan 12y ago> The third time my co-founder died Wow, don't see that one too often (fortunately)! Was it a kinda-sorta-expected thing (cancer, age, etc) or was it out of the blue?
- meelooo 12y agoHe had a scooter accident. My feeling is that he probably had the accident because he was really pushing himself too much: he was barely sleeping 3h per night and in the end his life was totally unbalanced with lots of prescription pills to support it (sleeping pills, caffeine for day time, weight loss pills, etc).
- dont_pm_me 12y agoi worked at a startup with a couple of failed founders -- basically you grab the next best engineering job you can find and lick your wounds until you're either ready to start again or give up completely
- meelooo 12y agoexactly!
- hayksaakian 12y agoKeep in mind this depends on when you fail. What happens when you take 10million in VC and then fail? Compare to a 100k angel round and then fail?
- zerr 12y agoFor 10M I guess you can afford to buy chickens. They will produce eggs, so problem solved... ;)
- rdl 12y agoFailed, consulting, startup, failed, consulting, success, failed, job, job, startup, sold, job.
- jeremyis 12y agoThis is a really interesting path. Could you supply more info for each phase? Like a sentence or two and the maybe the time you spent on each?
- 100k 12y agoI left my company due to cofounder conflicts and lack of traction (we had a few customers, but weren't able to raise funding and I didn't see it going anywhere). I was really depressed for a while, and for lack of a better idea started doing freelance/contract development. After a couple of years of that, I got the itch to work on a startup again and decided to come back to the Bay Area for that. I got a job at a seed-funded company as their first employee.
- aosmith 12y agoI've failed myself a few times. It normally consists of a month of bouncing around doing passion projects / thinking before returning to work.
- salemh 12y agoYou don't find "returning to work" has a stigma with the bouncing around? Meaning, startup to "big corp" or "any company" doesn't mind you were bouncing around. I'm just curious how dev's go through the interview/hiring process with the jumping around like that. As a more Operations dude, it hurts me pretty badly, even though I "jump" a lot with startups. Requires more explanation.
- skadamat 12y agoIt all comes down to the messaging / how you position yourself when you interview. If each 1-2 year stint was a good learning experience and that made you a better ops / dev, then you need to present that on your resumes / cover letters. Also, ideally while doing startups, you've also met a ton of people where you know that if the current project doesn't work out you can always work with / for one of them!
- aosmith 12y ago+1. I've never really worked outside of startups and there's always somebody who needs an engineer even if it's pseudo temporary.
- jfb 12y agoYou just need to be able to construct a persuasive narrative. Not, "I hated it and so I left" but more "the new gig offered me opportunities not available". I've bounced around a fair amount between long-term gigs, and it's never really been a problem.
- aosmith 12y agoNot really. I've never worked for a giant corporation...
- kolinko 12y agoDuring the past 10 years I tried launching startups a few times, failed most of the times within 6-12 months. After each failure I spent 3-6 months trying some more relaxing things (public speaking, dancing, standup comedy), and then got back to doing startups again and again. Right now I'm quite tired of all that, but fortunately the past micro-startup & investments brought in around $300k which would be enough to live comfortably for ~5 years in Poland. Right now I'm 30 years old, and the plan is to keep on trying. What changed during the past 10 years is that I'm no longer striving to go all in with a financed business and spend 70-hour workweeks. I don't want to build a billion-dollar business. Instead, I want to build something much smaller which will allow me to have personal life as well.
- aerovistae 12y agoIn what universe is stand-up comedy relaxing??? My god I would be nervous.
- kolinko 12y agoLike snowboarding or extreme sports. It's a different kind of stress - short bursts. Compared to all-encompassing never ending kind of consistent stress when doing startups.
- notahuman 12y agoWow, honestly i want a similar life just like you.
- schuman 12y ago2002: Started a small business. 2008: Pivoted to a somewhat more scalable and clearly defined small business. 2011: Started a true startup. 2013: Realized I'd started the wrong startup. Got a job at somebody else's growth stage startup. ~2018: Will start another startup. But this time I'll have a hell of a lot more understanding, expertise, connections, and
- serf 12y ago>2002: Started a small business. 2008: Pivoted to a somewhat more scalable and clearly defined small business. 2011: Started a true startup. What's the difference? Truly curious. The singular focus?
- 32faction 12y agoAdding onto this: for those who have failed and started again, did the failure affect your fundraising campaign once you did get traction on a startup?
- jfb 12y agoI ran out of gas and left my cofounder; divorced; worked a succession of small startup jobs, some better than others; ended up back at Apple. I have ideas that I cannot express at Apple and so may end up taking another whack at the piñata, now that a) I am not in the throes of a crumbling personal relationship and b) I've gone round the carousel once, so I have some idea how the world works. I regret the way I left my startup, but at the time I was under an abominable amount of pressure outside work, and I just sort of shot out sideways, like a watermelon seed being squeezed between thumb and forefinger. I do not regret leaving Apple to do the startup, not in the least.
- rdl 12y agoI don't think it is possible to do with more than two of work stress; personal life stress; physical safety or health stress simultaneously. One at a time is ideal, but most startups have work stress and physical stress (due to time) simultaneously. You don't have to be single and childless to do a startup successfully, but if you have family life or interpersonal relationships, they have to be good ones, or at least low stress ones.
- rayleoni 12y agoCan you give a few quick takeaways from your experiences concerning 'how the world works?'
- jfb 12y agoThe raise and the kabuki around it is at the very best a necessary evil -- bring your own capital on board if at all possible. Having raised, you are under no obligation to do what your angels want you to do -- at the size we were, we spent a totally disproportionate amount of time sucking up to the Angels rather than just getting on with it. Don't pivot to something that nobody wants to work on, simply because the investors want you to. If you're in business with a friend, make sure you both have comparable skin in the game -- I could float off because I hadn't relocated my family from a different continent. And I lost a friend because of the way I behaved -- much, much worse than losing investor cash. Don't be pie in the sky flakes about which color your M5 is going to be.
- mhluongo 12y agoMy first startup failed after a couple years. My co-founder and I were pretty worn out, and I had some medical issues. After a month of recovery (both from the biz and med stuff) I started contracting at two promising startups half-time. I went full-time at the beginning of this year, only to have a side project take off. Currently running that with the same co-founder and a new one.
- jdg 12y agoTo the couch for 2 months. And then back to another startup. ;)
- joshmn 12y agoHad a startup (rather, small company that was established in the hosting space), sold it when I was 19. Took that money, paid out employees, and tried to start something new and fresh. That failed. Had a co-founder that wasn't dedicated. Had some tech that I could sell and did sell, but I still considered it a failure because I never hit the mark I wanted. Consulted, took some jobs with startups here and there. Those startups failed for some reason or another so I went back to consulting. I'm now consulting and lending myself out to people/businesses with ideas, usually spending about 30 hours a week doing so. I spend another 10 volunteering and tutoring, and another 20 whipping up ideas of my own and seeing if I can find something that I'm confident enough to run with. My plan is to keep on trying. I have a book of ideas that I want to execute. I'm mostly just waiting for the right idea and the right front-end guy. I'll usually crank out an MVP and never release it because I fear it failing (and I'm not a popularizer); sooner or later, though, I'm confident something will stick when I find the right people to execute with (or they find me)
- mrfusion 12y agoWhat do you mean about not being a popularizer?
- StandardFuture 12y agoYou should publish your book of ideas as a GitHub repo and submit it here. It might help you find a perfect cofounder for one of your ideas, etc. Or just get general feedback. :)
- JikkuJose 12y agoHave you seen assembly.com?
- kiraken 12y agoI'm a pretty decent front-end developer and looking for a back end developer as well :) my email is aladin.bensassi@gmail.com Contact me if you wanna talk it through
- rrpadhy 12y agoAfter 4 years of working to build a big VC fundable startups (3 different products), I was pretty burnt out. I am continuing the last product, but now my focus is on building lifestyle startups which brings about $1m revenue every year. Joined a job on the side, which would help pay my bills and help my family settle down. In the meanwhile, I would be chipping along to build my small revenue generating startup.
- n_coats 12y agoFor those whose startups failed and ended up working as an engineer at another company, what would you say is the main difference between the company you work at now and your failed startup? Basically, what lacked in your startup that ultimately led to it's failure?
- aaronbrethorst 12y agoI consulted for a couple years, joined someone else's startup, consulted again, and am currently very much enjoying a real 9-5 job with a great salary, decent benefits, excellent coworkers, and the best work-life balance I've ever enjoyed. I may not have won the startup lottery, but I've never been happier.
- wonjun 12y agoI looked for a startup job specifically because pg says joining a startup is the next best thing, and then managed to join a growth stage startup. What's changed from doing a startup is I no longer have to think about if the company will survive in x months and I am just focusing on the technical side of things. My days have become easier and I get more positive outcomes each day, but in the long run, I feel like I have to get back in the game.
- clamprecht 12y agoWhile I was working on my own (small) startup, I took a contract at a job search engine in 2004, called Indeed.com. I ended up joining as employee #1, and stopped working on my own startup about a year later. Fast forward to 2012, Indeed.com was acquired for a cool billion. After that, I started Searchify.com (still going), and I'm currently living in Argentina, traveling through Patagonia at the moment.
- n_coats 12y agoHow is patagonia? Heard the wifi isn't so abundant there.. Congrats, I hope to make it there one day!
- clamprecht 12y agoInternet is generally slower, there is no 4G yet. Wifi is actually pretty common it seems, but I'm in a fairly popular part of Patagonia right now (San Martin de Los Andes and Bariloche). Tomorrow I'm driving South towards a town called El Chaltén, where there is apparently NO cell coverage, because the people who live there don't want it. I'll have to depend on Wifi 100% there. Aside from Internet coverage, Patagonia is beautiful, if you like lakes and mountains (and glaciers)!
- molsongolden 12y agoAre you climbing?? You're right in the thick of it.
- clamprecht 12y agoNow I'm in Calafate (glaciers). I didn't do any proper climbing on this trip, but I did a bunch of hiking. Doing a glacier hike tomorrow too!
- staunch 12y agoAfter a previous failure, my co-founder (and co-brother) and I are moving to the bay area this month, from LA. We're keeping our expenses low and plan to drive for Uber part-time as a way of avoiding day jobs. Even though I'm married and have a newborn, we're sharing a place and living like (healthy) college students. We've both turned down huge salaries to work together indefinitely. I love creating products for people. I love solving problems and I love writing code. The stress of a startup feels like a small price to pay to create something great. And I really want to create something great.
- kartikkumar 12y agoDoing a startup with a sibling, that's always intrigued me. I've thought about talking to my brother about it a few times. Just feels like it might be incurring too much risk to the personal relationship. What is your experience of that aspect of doing a startup like? Kudos got knowing what you want and going for it.
- staunch 12y agoI have a lot of siblings, so I know it wouldn't in most cases. But with my brother it's working great. Knowing each other so well makes it easy to cut to the truth of things. And there's a level of trust that simplifies issues that can otherwise be difficult.
- hoppi 12y agoI'm in a startup with my brother. I would say it depends on the type of relationship you have with your brother, we can resolve various issues easily and quickly. We think alike most of the time and if not, we know how to resolve it due to living with each other for a long time. That being said, we do have different roles and only certain parts of the startup are worked on together (frontend app etc..). Clear and concise responsibilities are what is going to help the most. If you are competitive, you are usually the most competitive with your own blood, which can get messy if you fight over the same thing.
- ef4 12y agoI funded my brother's business and would do it again in a heartbeat. It's a huge advantage to truly know the character of a potential business partner before you even start. I know we could both laugh/cry it off together if he lost every cent. Others may doubt whether that's really true, but I have my own evidence.
- tomasien 12y agoI kept creating stuff, learned to code, ended up being on the front page of the website that taught me to code, made a website that was in Time Magazine, and started another startup that is now well funded and growing rapidly. Just keep making stuff, stay afloat, and manage your mood - stay healthy, stay happy, but PRODUCE AND PUBLISH LOTS OF WORK!
- arjunrajkumar 12y ago8 months since I stopped working on the failed startup. Learnt how to code in Ruby on Rails by building small side projects in the evenings/weekends & also worked full time in the last 8 months. Going to start working on something again from this week. Life has brought me back to where I was before - but with a few lessons learnt, better skills & more humility than last time.
- jeremyriney 12y agoI went and lived in a monastery for a little over a year. Then started something new. Couldn't stay away for long.
- kartikkumar 12y agoWow, where was that? Sounds like a fascinating experience. Did you cut off from tech altogether for that period?
- jeremyriney 12y agoIt was near Redding, CA. Unfortunately the monastery needed a website built for them so I spent quite a bit of time working online. I couldn't escape it. But building and maintaining a website for a few hundred users was much more relaxing then building and maintaining one for tens of millions.
- bjwbell 12y agoWas it http://www.monasteryofstjohn.org/ http://www.monasteryofstjohn.org/? I grew up there (the town not the monastery).
- jeremyriney 12y agoIt sure was...
- infinitone 12y agoIntrigued. Do tell more.
- jeremyriney 12y agohttp://www.theverge.com/2013/5/8/4276466/jeremy-riney-everything-zen-can-you-be-a-monk-and-a-tycoon-too http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/8/4276466/jeremy-riney-everyt...
- raminassemi 12y agoSomeone should start a blog interviewing failed startup founders and letting them tell their stories and share their lessons, really in-depth. Maybe even bring in other people for multiple perspectives.
- mdparker89 12y agoThe problem is these lessons are, for the most part, already out there. Unfortunately, some things you just have to go through to really learn. All of the mistakes I made were ones I read about. It just took me a while to recognize that my mistakes were the same as the ones I read about. That said, if somebody did start that blog I would definitely read it.
- nostrademons 12y agoYeah, this was the biggest surprise for me in founding my own startup. I had worked for two previous startups to learn what to do and what not to do, and went into my own startup with a whole laundry list of pitfalls to avoid. It turns out that I ended up committing almost every one of them (except the ones that were management-related, and those only because we never got big enough to employ people. I think that when I ended up becoming a team lead at my job later, I ended up committing a bunch of them too, or nearly committing them and catching myself right before). The nice thing about having knowledge and experience is that oftentimes it shortens the time required to realize you're making a mistake. Folks who haven't done this before and haven't read about other peoples' experience can sometimes waste years doing something that clearly isn't going to work. If you've read about it before you might catch yourself after a few months, and if you've personally experienced it from the other side it might take you a couple weeks. But it really does require committing the mistake, learning (painfully) from it, and then doing it the right way a couple times before you'll start getting it right automatically
- raminassemi 12y ago> The nice thing about having knowledge and experience is that oftentimes it shortens the time required to realize you're making a mistake. Great point. Btw. seems the site you're linking to in your profile isn't working :)
- nostrademons 12y agohttp://diffle-history.blogspot.com/2008/12/aftermath.html http://diffle-history.blogspot.com/2008/12/aftermath.html Spent 5+ years at Google after that, worked on a bunch of cool projects, finessed my technical skills, learned how to push through difficult projects until completion, rebuilt my confidence, and recently left to try again. We'll see how it works out this time.
- dennisgorelik 12y agoDid you notice that your blog is full of SEO-spam comments?
- nostrademons 12y agoNope, I didn't. Thanks, I'll delete them next time I bother logging into blogger (I haven't in like 5 years). You'd think that spammers would realize that Blogger uses rel=nofollow and so they get zero Google-juice from this, but I guess not.
- BIackSwan 12y agoFailed at a bootstrapped startup (http://shoutt.me/ http://shoutt.me/) earlier this year after a painful 2 years. Learnt a lot and failed a lot - in practically everything - marketing, sales, growth, tech, operations. Lost a fair bit of money too. Failed because the product was wrong and it took us 2 years to accept it. Succeeded in one thing - found the right co founders. In 2 months started working on the another idea (https://doctorc.in https://doctorc.in) with the same co founders - moved to India. Got funded this August. Could execute infinitely better on this one because of all the lessons learnt in Shoutt. The experience of failure of the first startup is paying off now in the second one. I wouldn't have it any other way.
- prezjordan 12y agoShoutt was a great idea. I'm not sure why all startups like this fail to take off - Vark, Jelly, etc. Is it a timing thing? I mean everyone has a smartphone now, right? So how come it never works out? Wishing you and your team the best of luck with the new venture!
- BIackSwan 12y agoIt seems a good idea at first. But it doesn't actually solve an acute problem. Convincing people to use it on a daily basis is hard for such kind of an app.
- StandardFuture 12y agoI honestly believe that you have the single most important thing for a startup (a true 'just starting out' startup). The right co-founders (co-founding team). It's the one thing out of all the other things that you listed that cannot be learned. It is dependent on pure and simple luck. So, I have hopes for you guys if you have that plus a plethora of lessons learned. Good luck! Even though you may not even need it. ;)
- benologist 12y agoMoved onto idea #2 which was a refined #1 that skipped a lot of mistakes, it wasn't financially viable to work on it so I moved on to idea #3 while mumsy picked up the rent. Idea #3 was this 'passive revenue stream' idea of making tablet jigsaw puzzles, I figured it would be very quick + easy to set up and generate enough income to cover me for something else. That quickly changed into a full time effort to grow the company as it was so enjoyable having a product that makes money + could be better.
- blrgeek 12y agoStartup failed (early employee). Did my own startup; growth was insufficient. Ran out of runway (7yrs of doing startups). Looked around & got a position as a Product Manager in AdTech, since I didn't want to get back into a dev role, and wanted to move more into the prod/mktg side. Since then moved into an accelerator working with early-stage startups on mktg/prod. Life's been much better than I expected when I failed.
- elwell 12y agoContract work and actually having money
- unclebucknasty 12y agoAnother startup. And another, until it worked. Here's a question that is less frequently asked: to founders whose startups met with moderate success wherein it turned into a lifestyle business that could be sustained indefinitely, but never appeared to be reaching the life-changing initial vision, what did you do? We focus a lot on success and failure as binary concepts, but I think there are a ton of businesses that meet with some success, but fall well short of the initial goal.
- kbouw 12y agoBegan a startup senior year of college (Thryv). Managed to build a team, get sales, generate revenue and score a large partnership. Long story short, I was a customer of my own product and assumed I knew what other customers wanted. I spent the next 6 months having a product built without validating my initial assumptions before launching. The product was too niche only fitting customers who had my specific workflow and I ultimately found this out too late when we ran out of steam/resources. Total timeline (including fuckups) was 3 years. I was non-technical at my first startup (domain expert & business/marketing/sales) and after I shut it down, I spent the next 8 months teaching myself how to build software programs, becoming a now tech co-founder. I then started my second startup (http://notiontheory.com/ http://notiontheory.com/) by getting $20k pre-sales in 2 weeks to validate my idea before committing to it. Attempt 2 has been far more successful and we're already beginning hiring in month 5 bootstrapped.
- aerovistae 12y agoFor your number 4 bullet under "Services," I'm pretty sure you mean "Voila!" rather than "Viola," which is a musical instrument similar to a violin.
- kbouw 12y agoThanks :)
- authatheist 12y agoYou validated the idea of getting paid to write software for other people?
- nicwest 12y agoI got a job where I just get to write code, go home at regular time, and get paid every month. it's awesome.
- sirbetsalot 12y agoStarted a startup in Vancouver using Machine learning to automate the sports betting odds generating stack. Got two cofounders one MBA (yah i know) and a fundraiser, both failed badly as I did all the code. ended up doing 40% of the fundraising. fired the MBA for incompetence, 4 coders I had all left when other co founder did a deal where the term sheet was pulled last second. packed up left the company to the fundraiser and used all 12 man years of work to bet on sports. Now a successful sports gambler, completely financially free. Single most deadly killer to startups is a bad cofounder.
- notastartup 12y agoim in vancouver too. interesting you are in to sports gambling are the odds anything like poker? you should write an article on it.
- sirbetsalot 12y agoI plan to most def, and I plan on open sourcing the machine learning tech once I hit my first million next year. The odds are nothing like poker however, it takes a long long time to understand all the ins and outs of making money in sports gambling and the strategy is much different. FYI: I am awful at poker.
- notastartup 12y agobe sure to tweet it when that happens, i'll check it out! I've had the biggest temptation during this summer checking out the odds on FIFA games. Although betting on Brazil would've been really bad!
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- marketmaker 12y agoI have a question for you: How did you navigate the line between "I should just make money off of my own product and forget customers" vs "I should focus on the product and acquire customers"? Since there's an opportunity cost to doing both, I'm curious to understand how you navigated things with that kind of "fork in the road", so to speak.
- LogicX 12y agoHad a startup in Boston that went through TechStars 2010 (third startup) - got funded, fizzled on customer growth. Now in Myrtle Beach, SC building a startup community with Startup.SC (http://Startup.SC http://Startup.SC) and promoting an alternative place to do tech through http://WhyNotTheBeach.com http://WhyNotTheBeach.com. Also working remotely hacking websites (InfoSec). Looking forward to doing another startup once I build up support network, angel investors, etc. (Actually in Boston this week for Angel Bootcamp & TechStars Demo Day) - contact me through profile if anyone wants to get a drink.)
- frankydp 12y agoWhyNotTheBeach could get some good buy in from the other towns like MB. Daytona, Wilmington, Panama City, Pensacola, Destin, numerous others. Pool resources from the Chambers of Commerce and what not for decent advertising and recruiting. Anyways, great concept.
- notastartup 12y agoCurious, how do you define failure?
- zeeshanm 12y agoOne of my very first attempts was to build a tutorials site where I'd write stuff on photoshop, php, css, html, etc. Wrote a few tutorials, (re)designed website over 10 times before launch, but did not get any traction. Gave away my tutorials to other sites in the ecosystem. (https://web.archive.org/web/20050208112644/http://invano.com/?photoshop:chocolate https://web.archive.org/web/20050208112644/http://invano.com...) About the same time someone told me may be I should build sites where people can contribute and I wouldn't have to worry about creating content. So, I created this search engine that would index tutorials from all other sites. Built the back-end and some front-end but gradually lost interest to another project. Then I built this another site with tools for webmasters. This was actually launched with some modest success as by this time I had learned enough about Apache/PHP/MySQL etc. (https://web.archive.org/web/20051215081101/http://viewhtml.net/ https://web.archive.org/web/20051215081101/http://viewhtml.n...). But never figured out SEO/traction. These were in high school and after these tries I gradually lost interest to other stuff. So that was that. Then in college freshman year started this company to build computer hardware with my roommate. This was actually the first attempt to start a company. Everything else were just side projects. The idea was to build Dell equivalent for Linux. I think I read this note on some mailing listing about why Linux was not widespread (Android was not mainstream, yet) because there was not any well established distribution mechanism. There was a need to build an equivalent of Dell that would ship computers with Ubuntu and provide user support. So we bought off-the-shelf parts to build our first desktop computer to sell, built it, and installed Ubuntu. Then my roommate and I had a fallout. So that was the end of this. And there are a couple of more things that didn't take off. But life was not really impacted drastically as all were learning experiences.
- paulhauggis 12y agoSince 2009, I have been a founder of 3 different startups (and 10+ different side projects that I couldn't convert to successful products). All 3 failed. My problem was choosing co-founders that either did not have a passion for the idea or just weren't willing to do what it takes to run a business. Someone may be a good developer, designer, or co-worker...but that doesn't mean they will make a good co-founder. I learned this the hard way..and it was painful. I now run a small business with 2 other co-founders..and have been profitable since day one. I quit my job over a year ago and never looked back.
- chaostheory 12y agoWere the problematic co-founders you met good friends or not so close friends or acquaintances?
- tluyben2 12y agoHave had that before; also where I was a bad co-founder. Usually it is just bad timing as I saw; decided to start shortly after which something else just collapses (personally, past business) in such a manner that the co-founder cannot focus. Someone I started doing an internet-of-things startup with in 2008 got hit by the crisis and divorce at the same time (they were probably related, but I don't know that). It went very well (we worked productively together and progress was great) for 6 months and then he just started to show less and less interest until, at some point, his Linkedin changed that he was now working for some big company. He forgot to mention that in the months before building up to it.
- fizerkhan 12y agoFailed startup http://www.quadmsolutions.co.nz/ http://www.quadmsolutions.co.nz/ after painful 1.5 year. Failed because of co-founder issues. Then, I and my friend started working on new startup (https://www.atatus.com/ https://www.atatus.com/) and got 100 customers in 2 months.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- phugoid 12y agoI left my comfortable job in Dubai, moved the family (with 2 small kids) to Toronto to build an enterprise database product, launched it at the niche's world conference, pivoted once, and spent all the money I had. That took nine months. When it came time to look for work I got a decent job offer in the Toronto startup scene as a django dev, but I called up my old employer in Dubai and found out they had not managed to replace me. So I replaced myself! Moved the whole family back out to the Middle East. You'd think the whole experience has turned me off startups forever, but....
- skrebbel 12y agoWhy not do the startup in Dubai?
- phugoid 12y agoI was convinced that it wouldn't work unless I dove in and did it full-time. You lose your residency visa when you quit your job here, and you have 3 months to leave the country. There are ways around it but they are too expensive if you're bootstrapping.
- adamzerner 12y agoMy startup that failed aimed to provide more detailed student reviews of colleges. People wouldn't answer questions, and I couldn't get traction. It failed the summer after college (after starting it a year before). Now I'm at a coding bootcamp. I'll work for a year or two, and then give it another go.
- onethumb 12y agoI'm a sucker for pain, or it's in my blood, or something. Numerous failures, a few successes, just kept trying. Finally found something that really worked and still doing it, 12+ years later. I will say - I learned way more from the failures than the successes, and they massively shaped my current success. Good luck! :)
- michaelochurch 12y agoI spent 2.5 years at a startup and did some of that time working purely for equity. I'm not sure if I count as a "founder", as it was unclear where the founder/employee distinction was, and I'd say that I was probably Employee #1 or #2 rather than "a founder". The truth? Ugh. The pitch is that, even if you fail, you'll learn a ton and be slotted into a much more senior role in your next job. The reality? Yes, you do learn a lot. However, you get the same kind of job you would've gotten before the startup. Not more. That 2.5 years you spent building a complex product from scratch? Fucking wasted. In your next job, you're still going to be assigned to legacy maintenance, and random bugs and tickets like any other junior, not given real work and a meaningful role. I consider this pretty dangerous, because there's nothing worse than gaining 2-3 levels in ability, but having to linger at a low level because your startup's failure (which may or may not have been your fault; in my case, it wasn't) invalidates the experience completely. You might fare better, psychologically, if you don't go through the startup and gain levels of experience that you won't be permitted to use in the next job. It's easier to function if you're at-level than if you gain 5 years of experience in 15 months but no one believes you. It's pretty humiliating and you might break. (This was my Google experience. Granted, I had a rotten manager, but the psychological load of coming off a failed startup didn't help the situation.) I think the whole "nothing bad happens when your startup fails" pitch that you hear from VCs is disingenuous. VCs fix some peoples' careers after startup failure, but that's not going to happen for an early employee (E #2, not really a founder) of a company that didn't even make it to the A round. This isn't just an issue that I faced. I know plenty of hiring managers who worry about ex-startup people, not because they take the failure to mean anything about the person (for some good news, that stigma is mostly gone) but because they know that people who did startups are (a) a rank level or few beyond where they'd be slotted based on seniority, and (b) have chips on their shoulders. It's a valid concern. When it's an acqui-hire, the founders are usually tired of startup stress and ready to take a (still well-paid and high-status) subordinate role, but after a startup just fails you get someone who feels a need to prove himself and won't be happy being re-slotted to a second-year junior programmer. So... to answer the question, it's not an easy road. After a short spell at Google, I consulted with a horrible startup (that I've taken off my CV, and that inspired many of my cautions about startups, see: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-your-time-in-crappy-startup-jobs/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/dont-waste-yo...) that wanted to hire me as VP/Eng but only if I disparaged, in writing, the work of 10 engineers, many of whose work I knew nothing about. (I turned that offer down.) Then I worked in finance for a while, did a bit of consulting (including lottery design and technology selection) and have done some R&D (new product development and data science) in Baltimore. My life has gotten better, and with the blogging and the fact that I'm starting to know a few things about in-demand fields (machine learning, Haskell, Clojure) I'm now finding reasonable demand for what I can do. It's been a lot of work to get back on track, but I have, and I'm probably stronger for having had to fight this hard. I think that, in the long run, the experience is good for you. The year after (or few) can be hell. The pitch to the effect of "even if it fails, you'll get a great job afterward" is not really true. It's true for founders who line up with marquee investors and whom the investors really like, but in the average case and for people of average means and connections, the outcome seems to be neutral to negative. My case is just one data point (and an atypical one) but I think that most veterans of failed startups (early employees hit the hardest, then founders, then late employees) will admit that their careers have been set back, not accelerated, by them. It's certainly not fatal, but it causes a loss of time and, as you get older, you realize just how finite that is.
- Yadi 12y agoMoved to United States and abandoned all the horror stories I faced in my country after what my startup brought me to! You never know, even the failure of your dream company might be the reason you are a live or maybe your life is begging for a new beginning and failure lead to it.
- ivankirigin 12y agoI went to work for Facebook then Dropbox, and now I'm on my second startup. We just pivoted, so it sort of feels like the third. I've worked at a few different kinds of companies, and there are good and bad aspects of each kind of company, each stage of development.
- jacquesm 12y agoHeh, super good to see you back at it. Tenacity is the #1 factor in determining eventual success imo. Good for you :)
- pulkitpulkit 12y agowhat about non-technical founders?
- peteretep 12y agoWe never made any money, and I was the only permanent technical staff (but also technically the CTO) but we had some amazeballs clients - Samsung, Siemens, Tesco, RIM (while they were still cool), and so on. When we stopped being able to pay me a salary, I turned it in to a real CTO job at a 150 person software company. Our client list gave some real credibility there, as did being able to talk a good talk and looking presentable in a suit. I suspect this was a phenomenal career move: the previous startup CTO stuff, and any future small-company CTO stuff will be "real" in the eyes of recruiters because I've also managed a big team, budgets, etc - the "real CTO" role validates all the hacking code at smaller companies while claiming to be CTO. I think there can be a credibility gap for a 30 year old team leader at a profitless company calling themselves a CTO, but having also done a more traditional CTO role at a bigger company allows you to regain that credibility. I can talk confidently about CapEx, OpEx, I've been through a rubber-glove-type due diligence process, been deeply involved in high-level strategy ... I feel like I could spend the next ten years doing 3 people startups again, but then walk in to another "big" CTO role if it didn't work out because of this. Anyway, ultimately that wasn't what I wanted to do, as much as it was incredible experience. So the wife and I packed off to somewhere warm and cheap, she has a job that pays the bills and for the flat. I'm keeping myself busy by running a one-person R&D lab for a large listed company whose industry I have domain knowledge in, finishing my dissertation, and I've branched in to staffing because it's amazing how much quick cash you can make by messaging ex-coworkers on Facebook (and if you're a Perl developer in the UK: http://perl.careers/ http://perl.careers/)
- mattmanser 12y agoYou are suffering heavily from imposter syndrome. Because there are so few 150 person companies, most CTO jobs are for small companies. This doesn't make them any less of a CTO job. In fact, the hard decisions for a CTO are often going to be at the start. Choosing the stack, building the initial team and engineering culture... So stop questioning yourself.
- acjohnson55 12y agoOne of my startup's advisers intro'd me to the founder of a small consulting company whose mission I really loved. When I first started consulting, it was a nice opportunity to decompress from startup life and enjoy a job where I could basically clock in and clock out. A few months later, I was ready to start picking up some responsibility. I ended up joining the client permanently and it's been great so far. On the side, I advise startups a bit, which is cool because it lets me keep the lessons I learned in my own startup fresh. I've come up with a couple interesting startup ideas myself, but I don't feel pressed to be a founder again any time soon. I'd consider doing a startup again down the line, but I'd be very discriminating. I'm entering a more risk averse stage of life, and I think I'd rather position myself to join something as a leader that's already at least somewhat proven but still has a lot of upside. It takes a refined skillset to be viable for such a role, but that's what I'm aiming for.
- tluyben2 12y agoDid many startups in my life and some failed; just went on to the next one. I promised myself (when I was 13; almost 30 years ago) never to need 'a job' and I never will do. If you have the same wish then just don't give up after failure.
- makuchaku 12y ago3 co founders, now working for our investors in their tech firms.
- jobposter1234 12y agoI got lucky and found an excellent job at a local company. No connections, no hope, other than a good fit. There is hope. I only know because I feared the future, and came up feeling better than I'd imagined, once I had some support.
- gwbas1c 12y agoI interviewed for a bunch of jobs, and then found one with a small startup where the leaders were much better at running a business than I was. I now lead a very fun project to work on, and feel like I met my career goal in my early 30s. I'll need a new challenge in a few years, but for now it's nice to be in a routine and be a critical member of a kick-ass team.
- ismail 12y agoWent back into consulting, to build up my capital reserves again. Having learnt some hard lessons and burnt through my savings.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- appreneur 12y agoFailed, job, startup -success...gave up company because of co- founder,started again.. startup- success...amazing journey first 3 years...next 4 years hell with business partner. I have failed in the year 2011 after 7 long years at my bootstrapped company. My business partner didn't want me around, I was pretty emotional after so many years, I felt it's time to accept fate n move forward. Broke up with my gf, I quit my company(gave my 67% to partner if he split debt). So I pretty much walked out with million dollars debt and nothing on hand, life was tough. I started again,my small business was ok, my burn rate was low,I was ramen profitable ...burning $2000 per month but all customers money, hired employees fired lazy ones. I just couldn't cope with debt sold my house, my car, my dads house , my aunts house, fortunately n unfortunately I am from india, here people threaten with dire consequences and people give all their life earnings for loved ones. So all the assests cleared about 500k usd dollars. I earned 200k usd doing consulting, mobile apps, web apps, sentiment analysis ,paid 60k usd salaries. Now I have another 200,000 usd to clear on track to clear it but ....something beautiful happened , I married my gf after 3 years of break, my ex-business partner wants to do business with me again since he saw how I came out of rat hole,... .I just have one thing to say "don't give up and hang in there with logic and common sense" I feel I will succeed financially in 2015 , Our product is coming beautifully...then perhaps I can write a book...till then I have midnight oil to burn..
- seunosewa 12y agoWhy did you break up with your girlfriend initially and what motivated both of you to come back together?
- appreneur 12y agoHonestly it's her belief in me which bought us back together, I just gave up unable to handle stress from so many dimensions, financial, personal and friends turning soar. Not able to give time to her , I felt I might destroy myself or her permanently if I hanged around the relationship, it was becoming extremely stressful to handle her and my debt. So I requested her to let me go and allow me to focus on clearing the debt. Also I guess the break helped her see me in different light when she was away from me. I just melted to my gf waiting for me 3 long years. I said yes got married in 3 months. I am incredibly thankful for my parents to keep supporting me with all their might and it's beautiful....that I was born to such family where they go to any extent when rubber meets the road.
- fleitz 12y agoLeft me with a far better understanding of business, a lifetime of stories, some great friends, and a better engineering job. Finishing a prototype this month and going to try it again, this time with a long time friend on the business side, and a developer who knows more than me on the tech side. As a leader you never want to be the smartest guy in the room. Biggest take away was that leadership is far more about inspiring people than giving orders, you have to inspire people personally, and then inspire them on the shared vision.
- buro9 12y agoMight be too soon to answer, my startup ( http://microco.sm/ http://microco.sm/ ) just failed. As someone else put it: insufficient growth, ran out of runway. But at times I wonder whether it's because myself and my co-founder were of like skills and we didn't have a strong enough sales function. Whatever, we failed. I've had ~10 opportunities presented to me since announcing we'd failed. They ranged from dev position through to CTO position, but ultimately I sent an email to CloudFlare and have joined their team. A startup failing is traumatic. Aside from the emotional trauma it may lead you to doubt your own competency. I shine at product dev, and coding for that, so sought a place to do that. To regain confidence in myself. I also wanted regular(ish) hours and salary, to build able to rebuild some stability. I'm getting married in a month's time and most of the cost of that will be on credit card (founding a startup empties your coffers). So it was important for me to be earning and giving our marriage a good start. I may, in a few years, find that I want to return to the fray. But for the foreseeable future I feel deeply happy that I've joined a great team working on some hard problems, and that for myself I get stability out of it. A startup is a ship at sea in a storm, I wanted to experience a boat in harbour for a while.
- eps 12y agoHave you at all looked at selling microcosm as a upscale managed forum service? "Build a community" sounds like a far larger and less doable task than "host your forum with us".
- buro9 12y agoOur story is here: https://medium.com/@buro9/the-journey-of-a-london-startup-what-i-learned-when-my-company-failed-c67acd74b862 https://medium.com/@buro9/the-journey-of-a-london-startup-wh... But in essence, we figured that out quite late... moving from helping to assist building a community to having created an import tool and to push our numbers harder by simply moving existing forums/communities to us. We hit the end of the runway before the impact of that was felt. We didn't manage to raise enough funds to continue. We've open-sourced everything now, and I'm helping a couple of customers set up their own instances. Most customers are staying on a single shared instance though, as one of the larger sites is able to cover all of the costs of this (via the affiliate fee structure we had built in). It's a hard thing, to fail in such a way. We had 44,000 users, 280+ forums, and some revenue. But the revenue was significantly lower than costs (when you have employees, founders, etc), so the crunch hit us. I hope that the platform continues to live, and that it continues to shine. The customers are really happy, and some of the sales effort is still paying off (I spoke to a customer 3 days ago, who have 4k users, and they are joining the LFGSS.com instance of the platform). It would be easier if we had failed more spectacularly, more obviously. Perhaps by just not getting any users at all.
- bgdam 12y agoDid not do enough market research before building and launching product. A product similar to ours released some months ahead of us and got rave reviews in a lot of dev forums (HN included). Took that as validation of our product as well. Turns out, comments on HN don't really translate into money over the counter. Fast forward a year and we have near zero growth. Eventually both the similar product and us shut down. After that I needed to rebuild some confidence in myself, so I joined a small consultancy company as a lead dev. It's been a year since that happened, and now I'm beginning to feel the startup itch again. Working on a few side projects. The plan this time around is to not quit the job and go full time on the startup till it starts producing a certain amount in monthly recurring revenue. Let's see how this goes...
- lrmunoz 12y agoI realised my startup had failed last year, and part of the realisation was that it was doomed from the start. When I was coming to terms with that I applied to a bootstrapped startup for which I'm now the CTO. It's nice to have a steady salary now while I learn a hell lot about how to run a successful business in the real world Why did I fail? Well, basically what I wanted to achieve was only a nice idea, one that everyone loved when I explained it. But then, when we implemented it, it was so badly executed that it didn't do anything useful. Then we fell in the feature creep trap, I argued with my co-founder and he parted (because I didn't listen to him, and because he wasn't 100% committed), pivoted into another failing product (at least I managed to sell it and have some real customers) and finally entered into zombie mode for a while (actually the company is still officially in business as I had to take on some consultancy projects in order to pay back €50K in loans we took). Total time of my life spent: 4 years. In the future, I will try it again, and of course I will do different. First of all, it'll be small from the start (I'm even thinking of doing something that just provides some passive side income, in the level of 1000€ a month). Then it will have to be profitable from the beginning.
- Udo 12y agoIn the early 2000s with a few friends together I founded and ran a web development startup in Germany. Because I had been consulting for advertising agencies since high school, building a service company for agencies seemed like the natural thing to do. Afterall, it was the kind of customers I understood well, and my cofounders were enthusiastic about the concept, too. Despite doing every single conceivable thing wrong, we lasted a few years before dramatic failure ultimately hit. I learned the insidious thing about initial (modest) success is you become conditioned to underestimate the scope and probability of failure that can topple you in the future. One of my cofounders, who had always hated the startup part of our endeavor, and who wanted us to become a respectable German company as soon as possible, he was the first one to bail. And in hindsight he was absolutely correct about choosing the right moment to quit. It took me a few more months of pouring my own money in and taking on debt until I realized how absolutely screwed we were. Let me tell you: failing, in Germany, with your own money and in debt... it's pretty bad. Here, culturally most of your relationships are built on a sense of success and respectability. You lose all that in an instant. Customers and business partners wouldn't even take my call when I wanted to do a last farewell chat, even though we didn't owe them any money or anything like that. The disappointment coming from my family and friends was just complete and total, though they tried to be nice about it. The failure of my company now meant that I as a person was also a failure. After going down with the ship I went for a full time job, eventually sold a side project/company for a bit of independence, and did this for a few years, then transitioned to freelance software development. I have to say after the startup - even considering the horrible parts towards the end - after the startup there is a bleakness to a "normal" lifestyle I could never quite shake off. Recently I've also gotten some very unpleasant nudges from life which made me realize time spent on things is irrevocably wasted if they're not important to me. So I'm going into the fray again. In fact I'm working on a prototype right now.
- k__ 12y agoCan't blame you. I know a bunch of german companies who did everything wrong, but still operate for years. Many of my friends worked for so called "web agencies" who build shitty typo3 pages en masse. Most of the people working there were interns. I worked at a academic spin off. They had good tech but bad UX. They worked on for about 14 years and didn't make any money. Somehow the founders were good at raising money from investors. So the bills always got paid.
- anubhabb 12y agoLittle bit frustration, little isolation, little thinking and then ANOTHER IDEA, ANOTHER STARTUP :) All of these actually set well after my startup actually 'closed' as right after the closing I was too buzy getting my employees and my guys placed in other companies.
- jkent 12y agoIn the late 90s, I started a cloud-type hosting provider, with an angel round $100k+, dropping out of university. The dotcom crash happened and raising more money became near impossible. I was inexperienced and tried to do everything myself, and hired the wrong people. I morphed it in to a web development business that did OK, then worked out it was easier working for someone else (got my life-work balance better) - in a VC-backed startup that ultimately got acquired. I left to finish my degree. Got confused for a year and did a bit of sales. Then another startup that I couldn't get off the ground (services marketplace) - perhaps insanely ambitious. Then I trained as a teacher (forgot that), teaching inner city kids how to add up. I now work at Google in partnerships, where I am largely happy, married, get to travel a lot - and occasionally still 'get the itch' ...
- agotterer 12y agoMy co-founder and I started an ecommerce analytics company. We self funded (minus a small accelerator investment towards the end). The tech was hard and took us much longer to bulild then expected. We felt we were finally heading in the right direction towards the end but we're running low on money and gas. We spent 6 weeks shopping the software around in attempts to get acquihired. We ended up with two interested companies after talking to about 15. One made a small offer for the tech and generous offers for us to join the company, the other made just generous offers and wasn't interested in the tech. My partner and I didn't see eye to eye on the offers and were able to convince both companies to take us separately. Three months later we were introd to a company that wanted to buy the tech and didn't need us to come along with the deal. It wasn't the huge exit we had once hoped for, but it brought some closure and the product lives on. After a promotion 2 months after joining I'm leading a 13 person engineering team and enjoying having some money and time to spend with my wife and friends. I have some more startup left in me but plan to see this one through for a while.
- apa-sl 12y agoFew years ago on one day I took al my toys from the equity market (I've got this feeling that I'm not creating any real value and wasn't happy with that) and burned all money in my first startup (http://fashioner.com http://fashioner.com domain is for rent/sale ;). 1 year later I've inspired my friend to start another startup (service market on national level). Unfortunately VCs in Poland did not wanted to believe that it is such a good opportunity (and it was, currently 2 big competitors sharing this market). But the good thing was that we have inspired another friend to join us and gathered some money. Now, 2 years later, we've managed to create another startup from all that ;) (http://ElimiApp.com http://ElimiApp.com). Just taking off, seed in the bank, fingers crossed! I think it is just about the way you think and what you want to do in live. I could live very comfortably live from securities transactions (but create nothing, nada) or comfortably while working in some bigger company (no way). Instead I've choose to fight for years for my own thing.
- bigpeopleareold 12y agoI am working now. I am going to stick with this for a long time now. Whenever I want to go into a venture, anyone I work with seems to have serious issues. I worked with someone who was a bit too controversial, another too attached to the business model, believing things will turn around. All I can say is: Know your founders. I'd go far as to focus on their personal situation, like their risk tolerance, their "philosophy", their personal attachments, etc. The goal for a company is not to save the world, but to make money for you and your partners. If any personal attachment can get in the way, like "saving the world", or "keeping control of the company", it will. My major failure was not seeing this. At least for me there is a regular salary now.
- kowdermeister 12y agoI read "consulting" a lot in your comments, but what does that actually mean?
- almost40 12y agoStarted in 2007, no tech skills.. - Idea I published was novel & since has been copied by oodles, including celebrities, large corps & one copy now has millions of users. In 2009, after not being able to get my idea out in timely manner I started doing front-end dev jobs. I've been failing at those too for the past five years. I'm not a fast coder. In 2013, now with technical chops & a solid tech team we created tech that got us invited to demo to entity in the valley and received some good amount of attention. Though the entity in the valley was not nice to us, seem like they just wanted to possibly steal our work & squash us like a bug. So, Im happy to say I invented something oodles have copied with success & our work gets the attention of entities in the valley. Though is it worth it if... Your broke, jobless after Friday, childless, live with a parent, in debt, just broke it off again with cheater g/f who lives with her parent and in five months you'll be 40?
- wushupork 12y agoWhat was the idea you published out of curiosity?
- contingencies 12y agoI don't see my main startup as having failed, instead I decided not to keep it going. It was very close to profitability in a huge market (China) with enormous growth potential. The problem was I needed to run around doing non-fun business stuff (raising capital) and double-down for another few years to see it through. If I had, I'd be rich now. But I chose not to, and have no regrets. So where did life take me? In short: better places - more money, less stress, family, leisure, travel. Find what you want out of life (hint: loads of money is rarely it) ... work smarter not longer.
- sergioschuler 12y agoI have failed (about 50k people saw how I failed and what I learned here: http://www.sergioschuler.com/startup-lessons-learned-from-my-failed-startup/?hvid=3EvjLn http://www.sergioschuler.com/startup-lessons-learned-from-my...) and now I work for a pretty normal company, as their digital marketing head (not as impressive as it sounds, but I enjoy it). I am building something very simple on the side (libertarian tshirts, since the idea is growing here in Brazil) and I still crave to solve problems.
- xinterp 12y agoVariant 1: A friend and I were out of jobs and eager to test an idea we had about local real estate which had the potential to scale. I raised 25k in seed money from family. That person was more biz/sales oriented and we hired one of our other friend who had experience building software. Both of them became lazy and uninterested after a few months and quit as soon as we ran out of money. I worked at it for almost a year, alone with a part time admin assistant. Managed to pay back the seed money and "live through" that year but ended up very tired and still broke. Variant 2: One day I get a call from a MBA in a similar industry and he was very excited about the model. I was tired, broke and felt lonely, I easily got convinced to re-launch under a new name for a broader market. (original was in french) Created a whole new business, new name, new website, new everything. With the technical side mostly handled by me. 3 months in just as we were about to launch the new partner starts arguing all the time and suddently didn't trust me. We were not even putting our new version in front of clients yet and he was panicking. He forced a shut down of the business. It was the second time I was building this model - was still broke and exhausted. Variant 3: I felt relived and thought I'd go work a day job for a little while. Then 3 days later I'm sitting with one of the client of the first business and for him it made such a difference that he trying to convince me to try again and offered 100k in investment. Worked my ass off again for launch #3 - except this one I was aiming for the stars and had 100k in bank. Made a huge mistake in hiring technical talent, took us months to get a shitty product out. Made a huge mistake in hiring admin talent, burnt through 15k until we had to stop working with that person. And worst, 6 months in, as we're trying to hit it really hard we realize that the real estate markets we were after slowed down dramatically (40%-50% drop in sales) So we ran a test campaign and indeed, it confirmed a huge drop. I had to cut on every aspects of the business, let go of hires, go back to the plan and do a lot of thinking. We managed to survive a few months but it was extremely hard to get money out of clients because they knew the market was down and felt like they would waste money by investing in our platform in such a downturn. We had to pivot our business model and our client approach multiple times in the last 3 months. Which in retrospective brought me tremendous knowledge and made us try new innovative tactics to help my clients and show them that we could be trusted. Slowly but surely we've started to generate revenue and I'm proud to say that in the last few weeks we've actually hit our target, we're no longer digging ourselves in a hole. I'm now still completely broke but at least I can pay our team every week and I know that it's not just money that we borrowed but money that we earned and I'm confident in our new way of doing things. Reiteration works. It will get through anything, look at water. And so will I.