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I don't think we should push OpenBazar into the illegal drug corner. It is a neutral tech and follows the decentralization vector the internet opened. Amazon, E

I don't think we should push OpenBazar into the illegal drug corner. It is a neutral tech and follows the decentralization vector the internet opened. Amazon, Ebay, alibaba and so on, all could very well get absorbed by an open bazar concept. This happened imho to bittorrent, which remains in the piracy corner, even though it is brillant tech solution. E.g. BTSync still has this reputation problem (besides missing open sources) which curbs adoption from sys-admins.

geographomics 12y ago
One advantage of the Silk Road style markets was that, being centralised, they could choose to filter their wares down to a particular niche. By permitting everything by design, OpenBazaar is probably going to become infamous for facilitating trade in child pornography, materials of terrorism, and other such items considered a great deal more disreputable than prohibited drugs.
- Jukelox 12y ago
  I think your fears are purely speculative and are distracting from what's really going on here. We are witnessing a demand for unregulated markets because regulated markets are way too slow in responding to social changes. Let's face it - governmental decisions are made in the best interest of influential parties, not in the best interests of the individual. Do not protect me from myself.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - rayiner 12y ago
    Nobody is protecting you from yourself. They're trying to protect other people from the damage you can do as an addict, a child pornographer, or a terrorist.
    - Jukelox 12y ago
      What is terrorism, actually? If you give this question some serious thought, it becomes apparent that the term is full of confusion. Politicians perpetuate – and exploit – this ambiguity; causing greater harm by diverting attention away from issues which really do need to be addressed. More people are killed by the police than terrorism in the United States. http://www.alternet.org/more-americans-killed-police-terrorists-crime-down-why-police-aggression http://www.alternet.org/more-americans-killed-police-terrori...
      - Touche 12y ago
        You can question what terrorism is when you're in the grey area. But some things are just black/white terrorism, like the Boston Marathon bombing.
        Jukelox 12y ago
        The Boston Marathon bombing was a terrible tragedy. They purchased their supplies from regular retail outlets, not a unregulated internet market. [1] Which goes back to my original point. Linking terrorism to OpenBazaar is a far stretch and is rooted in fear, not data. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings
        slaman 12y ago
        It will always be possible to cause harm with legal objects, unless they ban fists and teeth. While I think linking terrorism is a stretch, there are benefits to regulating the sale of things designed specifically to cause death, automatic firearms, high capacity magazines, warheads...
    - killerpopiller 12y ago
      you are right, but child porn and addicts are already in the world. You fear addicts for good reasons. But if one looks how countries which legalized drugs are doing, you will see that violence, crime and number of addicts are decreasing. e.g. Portugal: - Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined.[15] - Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased.[15] - Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly (although recreational (soft) drug use seemed to increase)
  - rayiner 12y ago
    Nobody is protecting you from yourself. They're trying to protect other people from the damage you can do as an addict, a child pornographer, or a terrorist.
  - geographomics 12y ago
    I don't agree that regulated markets aren't sufficiently adaptive to social change. Silk Road was also a regulated market, just one that dealt in mostly illegal narcotics - so this clearly was adapting to the liberalisation of drug laws that is desired by so many. But if Silk Road had also dealt in child pornography, for example, we can be pretty sure that most people would know about it as a haven for paedophiles, rather than an online drugs den. My point is that purportedly neutral technologies become best known for their predominant use case. The Internet is mostly synonymous the web and email, as these were its first killer applications. Bittorrent is notorious for copyright infringement, as that is what it is overwhelmingly used for. Bitcoin has connotations of being a get rich quick scheme crossed with illegal drugs currency. And so on. Despite its intentions of neutrality, as an anonymised, unregulated, decentralised market, OpenBazaar will most probably become known for facilitating illegal trades - of all types.
    - Jukelox 12y ago
      I read your argument in two parts - one that appeals to my own emotions and one that hides behind the law to demonize illegal trade. Let's ignore the emotional part because that is highly subjective. I'd argue that the current legislation is not effective in representing the best interests of the general public, which is what I understand the spirit of all laws to be. It takes too long to change, and for change to even be considered it takes a significant amount of money or collective effort which is not always practical.
Touche 12y ago
What need is there for selling non-illegal things in a darknet market? Let's be honest, OpenBazaar will be used to sell drugs, stolen ids, and other illicit things.
- stefantalpalaru 12y ago
  > What need is there for selling non-illegal things in a darknet market? Avoiding platform fees and payment processor fees is no small thing.
  - mineshaftgap 12y ago
    Also taxes. What is the VAT like 20%? That is a lot of savings.
    - XorNot 12y ago
      And again, illegal.
      - expr- 12y ago
        That depends. Individuals generally need not pay tax for selling their private property.
        paulhauggis 12y ago
        I'm not sure where you live, but this is not the case nearly everywhere in the US.
        tirant 12y ago
        It's the case in most european countries, and I am sure also in lots of other places.
        xorcist 12y ago
        No, you're probably thinking of sales tax.

geographomics 12y ago

One advantage of the Silk Road style markets was that, being centralised, they could choose to filter their wares down to a particular niche. By permitting everything by design, OpenBazaar is probably going to become infamous for facilitating trade in child pornography, materials of terrorism, and other such items considered a great deal more disreputable than prohibited drugs.

Jukelox 12y ago
I think your fears are purely speculative and are distracting from what's really going on here. We are witnessing a demand for unregulated markets because regulated markets are way too slow in responding to social changes. Let's face it - governmental decisions are made in the best interest of influential parties, not in the best interests of the individual. Do not protect me from myself.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 12y ago
  Nobody is protecting you from yourself. They're trying to protect other people from the damage you can do as an addict, a child pornographer, or a terrorist.
  - Jukelox 12y ago
    What is terrorism, actually? If you give this question some serious thought, it becomes apparent that the term is full of confusion. Politicians perpetuate – and exploit – this ambiguity; causing greater harm by diverting attention away from issues which really do need to be addressed. More people are killed by the police than terrorism in the United States. http://www.alternet.org/more-americans-killed-police-terrorists-crime-down-why-police-aggression http://www.alternet.org/more-americans-killed-police-terrori...
    - Touche 12y ago
      You can question what terrorism is when you're in the grey area. But some things are just black/white terrorism, like the Boston Marathon bombing.
      - Jukelox 12y ago
        The Boston Marathon bombing was a terrible tragedy. They purchased their supplies from regular retail outlets, not a unregulated internet market. [1] Which goes back to my original point. Linking terrorism to OpenBazaar is a far stretch and is rooted in fear, not data. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Marathon_bombings
        slaman 12y ago
        It will always be possible to cause harm with legal objects, unless they ban fists and teeth. While I think linking terrorism is a stretch, there are benefits to regulating the sale of things designed specifically to cause death, automatic firearms, high capacity magazines, warheads...
  - killerpopiller 12y ago
    you are right, but child porn and addicts are already in the world. You fear addicts for good reasons. But if one looks how countries which legalized drugs are doing, you will see that violence, crime and number of addicts are decreasing. e.g. Portugal: - Drug use among adolescents (13-15 yrs) and "problematic" users declined.[15] - Drug-related criminal justice workloads decreased.[15] - Decreased street value of most illicit drugs, some significantly (although recreational (soft) drug use seemed to increase)
- rayiner 12y ago
  Nobody is protecting you from yourself. They're trying to protect other people from the damage you can do as an addict, a child pornographer, or a terrorist.
- geographomics 12y ago
  I don't agree that regulated markets aren't sufficiently adaptive to social change. Silk Road was also a regulated market, just one that dealt in mostly illegal narcotics - so this clearly was adapting to the liberalisation of drug laws that is desired by so many. But if Silk Road had also dealt in child pornography, for example, we can be pretty sure that most people would know about it as a haven for paedophiles, rather than an online drugs den. My point is that purportedly neutral technologies become best known for their predominant use case. The Internet is mostly synonymous the web and email, as these were its first killer applications. Bittorrent is notorious for copyright infringement, as that is what it is overwhelmingly used for. Bitcoin has connotations of being a get rich quick scheme crossed with illegal drugs currency. And so on. Despite its intentions of neutrality, as an anonymised, unregulated, decentralised market, OpenBazaar will most probably become known for facilitating illegal trades - of all types.
  - Jukelox 12y ago
    I read your argument in two parts - one that appeals to my own emotions and one that hides behind the law to demonize illegal trade. Let's ignore the emotional part because that is highly subjective. I'd argue that the current legislation is not effective in representing the best interests of the general public, which is what I understand the spirit of all laws to be. It takes too long to change, and for change to even be considered it takes a significant amount of money or collective effort which is not always practical.

Touche 12y ago

What need is there for selling non-illegal things in a darknet market? Let's be honest, OpenBazaar will be used to sell drugs, stolen ids, and other illicit things.

stefantalpalaru 12y ago
> What need is there for selling non-illegal things in a darknet market? Avoiding platform fees and payment processor fees is no small thing.
- mineshaftgap 12y ago
  Also taxes. What is the VAT like 20%? That is a lot of savings.
  - XorNot 12y ago
    And again, illegal.
    - expr- 12y ago
      That depends. Individuals generally need not pay tax for selling their private property.
      - paulhauggis 12y ago
        I'm not sure where you live, but this is not the case nearly everywhere in the US.
        tirant 12y ago
        It's the case in most european countries, and I am sure also in lots of other places.
        xorcist 12y ago
        No, you're probably thinking of sales tax.