4 ms·

As little as 50 years ago, selling these drugs wasn't illegal in the US. Look how far we've come.

sliverstorm 12y ago
As little as 50 years ago, putting lead in gasoline was legal. Look how far we've come. As little as 20 years ago, spraying your crops with DDT wasn't illegal. Look how far we've come. As little as 5 years ago, selling furniture treated with brominated flame retardants wasn't illegal in the EU. Look how far we've come. We are wrong about chemicals all the time. The regulatory status of chemical X fifty years ago rarely means much.
- MysticFear 12y ago
  The responsible use of drugs for your own use doesn't affect anyone except yourself. The chemical uses you brought up affects more than just yourself.
  - ogijaoijfawje 12y ago
    So alcohol, which is for your own use, can't affect anyone except yourself?
  - akerl_ 12y ago
    That's quite the qualifier. If the only issue was "responsible" use of drugs, we'd be dealing with a substantially easier debate. But before we get rid of the current legislation about drugs, we would need an actual plan for dealing with irresponsible uses of drugs.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    Except the issue is that many drugs affect your ability to be responsible. If people could take heroin or ice and (a) stop whenever they wanted and (b) still function as society expects then nobody would have an issue with them being legal. But drugs like those effectively rewire the brain and are incredibly destructive. A significant amount of domestic violence, child abuse, family breakdown incidents are directly attributable to drugs. You can't blame society for not wanting drugs like those to be readily accessible.
    - Nursie 12y ago
      There is an argument that removing the criminal sanctions against addicts might significantly mitigate these problems. Regardless, the current legislative frameworks around the world (with few exceptions) are based on fear and a twisted sense of morality rather than actual harm.
    - girvo 12y ago
      Hi. I'm an ex heroin addict, and while I was addicted for 6 years, only two other people in the world knew. I ran two businesses (one successfully), and wrote innovative software that made people a lot of money. I was successful. There are a number of other techies who have reached out to me to explain their stories, and as it turns out I'm not alone in this. I still got clean, because the risk of getting caught and the impact that would have on my future outweighed my addiction. I'm glad I did, and I'm lucky Australia treats it as a medical problem, not a criminal one, when you seek help.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
coralreef 12y ago
Which drugs would those be? The press release didn't mention what kind of drugs were being trafficked.
travisp 12y ago
It's worth noting that other things sold include "firearms; stolen credit card data and personal identification information; counterfeit currency; fake passports and other identification documents". A number of the sites didn't even sell drugs (only these other things).
- forgotpasswd3x 12y ago
  I'm not sure about silk road 2, but firearms were never sold on silk road.
  - dobbsbob 12y ago
    SR#1 they created the Armory, a seperate market. It was full of scams and extortion attempts so shut it down. Best listing was some guy in Russia trying to peddle uranium for GPS coord drop.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
nowarninglabel 12y ago
In response to negativity around the drug war, I'd say that for the first time in a long time we should be very optimistic about the future of legalization in the United States. Washington, Oregon, Alaska, Colorado, and D.C. now have full legalization in legislation. Florida got nearly 58% on medical marijuana vote that unfortunately needed 60%. 23 states have legalized medical marijuana. (Up to date map: https://localtvwtvr.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/marijuana-ma.. https://localtvwtvr.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/marijuana-ma.... ) More importantly, criminalization is moving towards citations across the nation. We are getting rid of draconian mandatory sentencing for drug crimes. This is all very good news, and while it's slow, remember that the government moves slow, but as long as it keeps moving in the right direction, we can look forward to a time in which full legalization of all scheduled drugs may eventually become a reality. So instead of being defeatist or spouting sarcasm, step up and support the people making this happen. It's not just public opinion changing, it's SSDP, MPP, NORML putting money, time, and effort into lobbying for these changes. That's against stiff competition from lobbying being done by prescription drug manufacturers (http://www.thenation.com/article/180493/anti-pot-lobbys-big-... http://www.thenation.com/article/180493/anti-pot-lobbys-big-...) Now is a time of pendulum swing in the right direction, and we should be keeping the momentum going behind it.
- meowface 12y ago
  Legalization of marijuana within the next 30 years is inevitable for most states. But legalization of heroin, crack, cocaine, meth? That's really a pipe dream. It might happen some day, but that'd be more on the range of 70-100 years if I were to guess, and perhaps a lot longer. Marijuana is a significant portion of sales on all of the dark markets, but other more addictive narcotics still constitute the majority compared to marijuana.
- puredemo 12y ago
  Sure, for marijuana. But the ethical imperative to allow people full control over what substances go into their own bodies seems to be as ignored as ever. Simple example: I'm not legally allowed to control the levels of testosterone in my own body. That seems absurd. #MyBodyMyChoice
orbifold 12y ago
I think people in power realized that the counter culture of the 60s and 70s posed a real threat to a capitalistic society, so they eliminated factors that could give people the idea their life purpose was not to be a drone in a large corporation.
- adventured 12y ago
  Capitalism - an actual free market - would require the complete legalization of all drugs. You've got it exactly backwards. The counter culture won. America is the world's largest welfare state, has the largest entitlement systems, with a total government system larger than the economy of Japan, hyper regulation, high taxation, and has very few remnants of Capitalism.
  - orbifold 12y ago
    I did not mean some fantasy version of Capitalism, just the fact that for a modern capitalistic society to function, people have to want to buy a new car every few years, strife to have a house and take on consumer credits to buy a new flat screen TV. Maybe I should have used Consumerism. I think it is fairly indisputable that modern economies would not function, if there were not a constant and increasing demand for new stuff. From a global standpoint this seems far from optimal, if you want to optimize for conserving finite resources like oil. In a free market the only way to counter act that a finite resource is exhausted is by the fact that the price increases as time goes on. So there is a very long time where you can use a resource for frivolous stuff like Helium balloons, while at the same time being perfectly aware that it should probably be used for more useful things.
- Nursie 12y ago
  Did it though? AFAICT when people came down from whatever it was and actually tried to live their 'new' ways, they pretty much degenerated and fell apart after short times for all sorts of reasons. Being a corporate drone is not an aspiration. Feeding your family and having a nice place for them to live certainly is though.
  - 12y ago
mechatronics 12y ago
Just once, I'd like one of you to admit that Silk Road (any many of the other sites) sold large amounts of identity theft equipment. These are not noble drug dealers harming nobody. They are sociopathic assholes selling whatever makes money, even if the ONLY reason for the item is to harm innocent individuals against their will.
- polshaw 12y ago
  "They" are not the same person. Silk road and sites like it are/were marketplaces, not retailers.
- dobbsbob 12y ago
  Vendors there sold phony identification for the sole puposes of renting drops to import narcotics or start a false front company. SR wasn't involved in trading databases of stolen info, though the other major sites that weren't busted are. Agora is like the walmart of e-crime
- kordless 12y ago
  As I read the article I was thinking, "Shouldn't they be catching bad guys?" A 'war' on drugs is technically catching bad guys, where the 'bad' is defined as selling one thing to another for (presumed) personal use. What you are talking about is important, but you should take that up with the FBI. They are the ones going on and on about drugs.

As little as 50 years ago, putting lead in gasoline was legal. Look how far we've come. As little as 20 years ago, spraying your crops with DDT wasn't illegal. Look how far we've come. As little as 5 years ago, selling furniture treated with brominated flame retardants wasn't illegal in the EU. Look how far we've come. We are wrong about chemicals all the time. The regulatory status of chemical X fifty years ago rarely means much.

MysticFear 12y ago
The responsible use of drugs for your own use doesn't affect anyone except yourself. The chemical uses you brought up affects more than just yourself.
- ogijaoijfawje 12y ago
  So alcohol, which is for your own use, can't affect anyone except yourself?
- akerl_ 12y ago
  That's quite the qualifier. If the only issue was "responsible" use of drugs, we'd be dealing with a substantially easier debate. But before we get rid of the current legislation about drugs, we would need an actual plan for dealing with irresponsible uses of drugs.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Except the issue is that many drugs affect your ability to be responsible. If people could take heroin or ice and (a) stop whenever they wanted and (b) still function as society expects then nobody would have an issue with them being legal. But drugs like those effectively rewire the brain and are incredibly destructive. A significant amount of domestic violence, child abuse, family breakdown incidents are directly attributable to drugs. You can't blame society for not wanting drugs like those to be readily accessible.
  - Nursie 12y ago
    There is an argument that removing the criminal sanctions against addicts might significantly mitigate these problems. Regardless, the current legislative frameworks around the world (with few exceptions) are based on fear and a twisted sense of morality rather than actual harm.
  - girvo 12y ago
    Hi. I'm an ex heroin addict, and while I was addicted for 6 years, only two other people in the world knew. I ran two businesses (one successfully), and wrote innovative software that made people a lot of money. I was successful. There are a number of other techies who have reached out to me to explain their stories, and as it turns out I'm not alone in this. I still got clean, because the risk of getting caught and the impact that would have on my future outweighed my addiction. I'm glad I did, and I'm lucky Australia treats it as a medical problem, not a criminal one, when you seek help.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

coralreef 12y ago

Which drugs would those be? The press release didn't mention what kind of drugs were being trafficked.

travisp 12y ago

It's worth noting that other things sold include "firearms; stolen credit card data and personal identification information; counterfeit currency; fake passports and other identification documents". A number of the sites didn't even sell drugs (only these other things).

forgotpasswd3x 12y ago
I'm not sure about silk road 2, but firearms were never sold on silk road.
- dobbsbob 12y ago
  SR#1 they created the Armory, a seperate market. It was full of scams and extortion attempts so shut it down. Best listing was some guy in Russia trying to peddle uranium for GPS coord drop.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

nowarninglabel 12y ago

In response to negativity around the drug war, I'd say that for the first time in a long time we should be very optimistic about the future of legalization in the United States. Washington, Oregon, Alaska, Colorado, and D.C. now have full legalization in legislation. Florida got nearly 58% on medical marijuana vote that unfortunately needed 60%. 23 states have legalized medical marijuana. (Up to date map: https://localtvwtvr.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/marijuana-ma.. https://localtvwtvr.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/marijuana-ma.... ) More importantly, criminalization is moving towards citations across the nation. We are getting rid of draconian mandatory sentencing for drug crimes. This is all very good news, and while it's slow, remember that the government moves slow, but as long as it keeps moving in the right direction, we can look forward to a time in which full legalization of all scheduled drugs may eventually become a reality. So instead of being defeatist or spouting sarcasm, step up and support the people making this happen. It's not just public opinion changing, it's SSDP, MPP, NORML putting money, time, and effort into lobbying for these changes. That's against stiff competition from lobbying being done by prescription drug manufacturers (http://www.thenation.com/article/180493/anti-pot-lobbys-big-... http://www.thenation.com/article/180493/anti-pot-lobbys-big-...) Now is a time of pendulum swing in the right direction, and we should be keeping the momentum going behind it.

meowface 12y ago
Legalization of marijuana within the next 30 years is inevitable for most states. But legalization of heroin, crack, cocaine, meth? That's really a pipe dream. It might happen some day, but that'd be more on the range of 70-100 years if I were to guess, and perhaps a lot longer. Marijuana is a significant portion of sales on all of the dark markets, but other more addictive narcotics still constitute the majority compared to marijuana.
puredemo 12y ago
Sure, for marijuana. But the ethical imperative to allow people full control over what substances go into their own bodies seems to be as ignored as ever. Simple example: I'm not legally allowed to control the levels of testosterone in my own body. That seems absurd. #MyBodyMyChoice

orbifold 12y ago

I think people in power realized that the counter culture of the 60s and 70s posed a real threat to a capitalistic society, so they eliminated factors that could give people the idea their life purpose was not to be a drone in a large corporation.

adventured 12y ago
Capitalism - an actual free market - would require the complete legalization of all drugs. You've got it exactly backwards. The counter culture won. America is the world's largest welfare state, has the largest entitlement systems, with a total government system larger than the economy of Japan, hyper regulation, high taxation, and has very few remnants of Capitalism.
- orbifold 12y ago
  I did not mean some fantasy version of Capitalism, just the fact that for a modern capitalistic society to function, people have to want to buy a new car every few years, strife to have a house and take on consumer credits to buy a new flat screen TV. Maybe I should have used Consumerism. I think it is fairly indisputable that modern economies would not function, if there were not a constant and increasing demand for new stuff. From a global standpoint this seems far from optimal, if you want to optimize for conserving finite resources like oil. In a free market the only way to counter act that a finite resource is exhausted is by the fact that the price increases as time goes on. So there is a very long time where you can use a resource for frivolous stuff like Helium balloons, while at the same time being perfectly aware that it should probably be used for more useful things.
Nursie 12y ago
Did it though? AFAICT when people came down from whatever it was and actually tried to live their 'new' ways, they pretty much degenerated and fell apart after short times for all sorts of reasons. Being a corporate drone is not an aspiration. Feeding your family and having a nice place for them to live certainly is though.
- 12y ago

mechatronics 12y ago

Just once, I'd like one of you to admit that Silk Road (any many of the other sites) sold large amounts of identity theft equipment. These are not noble drug dealers harming nobody. They are sociopathic assholes selling whatever makes money, even if the ONLY reason for the item is to harm innocent individuals against their will.

polshaw 12y ago
"They" are not the same person. Silk road and sites like it are/were marketplaces, not retailers.
dobbsbob 12y ago
Vendors there sold phony identification for the sole puposes of renting drops to import narcotics or start a false front company. SR wasn't involved in trading databases of stolen info, though the other major sites that weren't busted are. Agora is like the walmart of e-crime
kordless 12y ago
As I read the article I was thinking, "Shouldn't they be catching bad guys?" A 'war' on drugs is technically catching bad guys, where the 'bad' is defined as selling one thing to another for (presumed) personal use. What you are talking about is important, but you should take that up with the FBI. They are the ones going on and on about drugs.