4 ms·

The real first amendment problem is that you have to have a license to express yourself in this manner, to strip.

by tarminian 12y ago

comrh 12y ago
I always thought it was weird barbers and hair salons need licenses. I get the historical context but still?
- joezydeco 12y ago
  NPR did a good story on this: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-illegal-to-braid-hair-without-a-license http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-...
- trhway 12y ago
  barbers at least operate sharp tools in dangerous vicinity of your ears and they required to have at least some training as a condition of the license. What could go wrong what is supposedly stripper's license saving us from, and what kind of training government requires here?
  - rverghes 12y ago
    I would guess that it's to keep underage girls out of the stripping business. Probably previously the onus was on the owner to avoid hiring underage girls. But a couple scandals later, the government responded by requiring licensing.
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    That and chemicals for dying, perming and straightening hair, which can have dangers to both customer and hairdresser if misused. On the other hand incumbents sometimes band together and demand regulations to keep out new entrants to a business, as in a recent controversy over whether a license should be required to braid hair (a popular service in the black community).
- darklajid 12y ago
  Why? I, as a customer, would like to know that the person in front of me actually went through some sort of 'test' instead of hoping that a crappy business would be out of business by now.. I had lots of fun discussions with both Israeli and US acquaintances about the fact that 'Business Administration' (as in, 'front desk & more') is something you have to learn in Germany (usually 3 years, apprenticeship split between working and learning at a school). These people usually said 'WTF? So, I know Word, Excel and can communicate quite decently - that's all it would take to get a job like that here'. Expectations matter and are - to make matters more complicated - often heavily influenced by culture as well. (You wouldn't be able to tell that I care about a barber that knows what he's doing, tbh. My wife claims I fail selecting the correct shop anyway, whatever I try. But I do support the 'please prove that you have a basic understanding of what you are doing' system)
oofabz 12y ago
And if there were no licenses, we wouldn't have this troubling situation where the licenses are secret.
anigbrowl 12y ago
Striipping is definitely protected under the first amendment, but there might be other reasons for the license situation. I didn't dig into the history of stripper licensing in Washington in any great depth, but I'm reminded of the fact that licensing rules for adult entertainment venues in San Francisco have been proposed by an association of adult entertainment performers in response to exploitative working environments where dancers were being underpaid, subject to harrassment etc., with strip club managers arguing that regular labor laws were inapplicable because dancers were independent contractors rather than employees:: http://www.bayswan.org/eda-sf/lawstoknow.html http://www.bayswan.org/eda-sf/lawstoknow.html A quick google turned up the fact that there have been some big organized crime/prostitution scandals in Washington state in recent years, eg http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_federal_agents_raid_strip_club_empire_in_Washington_state http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_federal_agents_raid_strip_clu... which may have influenced the drafting of regulation eg this one from Kent County, WA (which states the legislative purpose up front): http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kent/html/Kent05/Kent0510.html http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kent/html/Kent05/Kent0510.h... It's not unreasonable to suppose that some pressure for regulation comes from people within the industry as opposed to those who only want to curtail it.
wvenable 12y ago
You only need a license to do it commercially. You are free to express yourself by stripping for free without a license. Although you might come up against other, unrelated, sanctions.
- indrax 12y ago
  Commercial activity does not remove first amendment protections. (See: Newspapers)

The real first amendment problem is that you have to have a license to express yourself in this manner, to strip.

comrh 12y ago

I always thought it was weird barbers and hair salons need licenses. I get the historical context but still?

joezydeco 12y ago
NPR did a good story on this: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-illegal-to-braid-hair-without-a-license http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/154826233/why-its-...
trhway 12y ago
barbers at least operate sharp tools in dangerous vicinity of your ears and they required to have at least some training as a condition of the license. What could go wrong what is supposedly stripper's license saving us from, and what kind of training government requires here?
- rverghes 12y ago
  I would guess that it's to keep underage girls out of the stripping business. Probably previously the onus was on the owner to avoid hiring underage girls. But a couple scandals later, the government responded by requiring licensing.
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  That and chemicals for dying, perming and straightening hair, which can have dangers to both customer and hairdresser if misused. On the other hand incumbents sometimes band together and demand regulations to keep out new entrants to a business, as in a recent controversy over whether a license should be required to braid hair (a popular service in the black community).
darklajid 12y ago
Why? I, as a customer, would like to know that the person in front of me actually went through some sort of 'test' instead of hoping that a crappy business would be out of business by now.. I had lots of fun discussions with both Israeli and US acquaintances about the fact that 'Business Administration' (as in, 'front desk & more') is something you have to learn in Germany (usually 3 years, apprenticeship split between working and learning at a school). These people usually said 'WTF? So, I know Word, Excel and can communicate quite decently - that's all it would take to get a job like that here'. Expectations matter and are - to make matters more complicated - often heavily influenced by culture as well. (You wouldn't be able to tell that I care about a barber that knows what he's doing, tbh. My wife claims I fail selecting the correct shop anyway, whatever I try. But I do support the 'please prove that you have a basic understanding of what you are doing' system)

oofabz 12y ago

And if there were no licenses, we wouldn't have this troubling situation where the licenses are secret.

anigbrowl 12y ago

Striipping is definitely protected under the first amendment, but there might be other reasons for the license situation. I didn't dig into the history of stripper licensing in Washington in any great depth, but I'm reminded of the fact that licensing rules for adult entertainment venues in San Francisco have been proposed by an association of adult entertainment performers in response to exploitative working environments where dancers were being underpaid, subject to harrassment etc., with strip club managers arguing that regular labor laws were inapplicable because dancers were independent contractors rather than employees:: http://www.bayswan.org/eda-sf/lawstoknow.html http://www.bayswan.org/eda-sf/lawstoknow.html A quick google turned up the fact that there have been some big organized crime/prostitution scandals in Washington state in recent years, eg http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_federal_agents_raid_strip_club_empire_in_Washington_state http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_federal_agents_raid_strip_clu... which may have influenced the drafting of regulation eg this one from Kent County, WA (which states the legislative purpose up front): http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kent/html/Kent05/Kent0510.html http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/kent/html/Kent05/Kent0510.h... It's not unreasonable to suppose that some pressure for regulation comes from people within the industry as opposed to those who only want to curtail it.

wvenable 12y ago

You only need a license to do it commercially. You are free to express yourself by stripping for free without a license. Although you might come up against other, unrelated, sanctions.

indrax 12y ago
Commercial activity does not remove first amendment protections. (See: Newspapers)