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Its exciting to think we (the USA) might slowly be waking up from the nightmare that is the war on drugs. Hopeful for continued progress!

Someone1234 12y ago
If you're referring to the Washington legalisation, I'd agree that is a step forward. If you mean in general I'm not sure if the US is changing all that much. The US has a strange puritanical undertone to it that doesn't seem to be going away. Things that are considered immoral are outlawed and heavily punished, often with no chance of redemption (i.e. in the US most crimes never expire and it is hard (and expensive) to get them expunged). You can see this puritanical nature everywhere, from violence Vs. sex on TV, in crimes (i.e. sex is prosecuted disproportionately harshly), video games, and so on, to drugs ("war on drugs," US's obsession with [legal] painkillers, while dishing out anti-depressants like candy), homophobia in general (and "abnormal" things in the bedroom), alcohol, and on and on.
- duaneb 12y ago
  You know, it's funny—I typically view "puritanical" as something Massachusetts is. In this case, I think it's more like simple dogma. Puritanism is based on morality, but our current view of drugs and crime (as a country) seems to be derived from the 60s-80s "war on drugs". Instead, I see people just not trying to think about it. They become uncomfortable when the subject comes up. There aren't a lot of people making urgent, moral arguments against it—it really does seem like it's driven more by the momentum of law enforcement agencies attempting to justify their own excistance than anything else, and the rest of the country being complicity because they don't want to be labeled a hippy.
  - tomsthumb 12y ago
    > Puritanism is based on morality Puritanism is based on a morality. Your phrasing indicates how deep seated it is in our culture.
    - duaneb 12y ago
      Well, it is based on a certain framework of morality, but it's also based on morality in general. I don't think the government should be in the business of moralizing.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ojbyrne 12y ago
  You say yourself it is an undertone, and certainly there is a very bipolar nature to American culture. That doesn't mean it can't change for the better. Gay sex has gone from something that once was the most heinous possible thing imaginable to something that's being accepted in even the most conservative of states. Marijuana is now legal in 4 states (and a district) and only a minor infraction in several others. Both these things wouldn't have been imaginable 20 years ago. The one thing the country is, is dynamic. It changes a lot quicker than many other countries.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    > The one thing the country is, is dynamic. It changes a lot quicker than many other countries. As the population "ages out" (older people with different societal mores die out, are replaced with younger folks), these changes occur. If you check out the exit polls for Florida for their recent medicinal marijuana ballot initiative, the 65+ age cohort was 62% against/38% for it. Compare that to the 18-29 age cohort (79% for/21% against). http://cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/FL http://cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/FL I leave it to the reader to calculate the "run rate" at which time ballot measures such as these pass based on actuarial data in various states.
- adventured 12y ago
  I'm completely sure of it. In general it's changing drastically in the US in fact. National polls indicate the majority are now in favor of pot legalization. States keep moving step by step toward treating drug addiction as a medical problem instead of a criminal problem. There is extremely wide-spread recognition that we have far too many people in prison, and that the police are far too violent / aggressive; both problems are finally seeing push-back and improvement. The US has a long history of making sweeping cultural changes, sometimes extremely rapidly, other times extremely slowly. There is immense and continual precedence in the US for the culture moving in the right direction, from women's suffrage, to civil rights, to gay marriage. America has a problem with alcohol? Where? I think you have it exactly backwards, there is relatively little puritanical anything left in America's culture. 1) The US is the world's largest consumer of alcohol. 2) The US is the world's biggest pornography market. The US is freer when it comes to that, than many European nations that are supposed to be non-puritanical. 3) I have no idea why you referenced video games, there are no actual problems with video games in the US despite whatever sensational blip you might have seen. 4) Most media in the US is perfectly fine with sexuality, you're referring to an extraordinarily small part of it, the broadcast networks.

Someone1234 12y ago

If you're referring to the Washington legalisation, I'd agree that is a step forward. If you mean in general I'm not sure if the US is changing all that much. The US has a strange puritanical undertone to it that doesn't seem to be going away. Things that are considered immoral are outlawed and heavily punished, often with no chance of redemption (i.e. in the US most crimes never expire and it is hard (and expensive) to get them expunged). You can see this puritanical nature everywhere, from violence Vs. sex on TV, in crimes (i.e. sex is prosecuted disproportionately harshly), video games, and so on, to drugs ("war on drugs," US's obsession with [legal] painkillers, while dishing out anti-depressants like candy), homophobia in general (and "abnormal" things in the bedroom), alcohol, and on and on.

duaneb 12y ago
You know, it's funny—I typically view "puritanical" as something Massachusetts is. In this case, I think it's more like simple dogma. Puritanism is based on morality, but our current view of drugs and crime (as a country) seems to be derived from the 60s-80s "war on drugs". Instead, I see people just not trying to think about it. They become uncomfortable when the subject comes up. There aren't a lot of people making urgent, moral arguments against it—it really does seem like it's driven more by the momentum of law enforcement agencies attempting to justify their own excistance than anything else, and the rest of the country being complicity because they don't want to be labeled a hippy.
- tomsthumb 12y ago
  > Puritanism is based on morality Puritanism is based on a morality. Your phrasing indicates how deep seated it is in our culture.
  - duaneb 12y ago
    Well, it is based on a certain framework of morality, but it's also based on morality in general. I don't think the government should be in the business of moralizing.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ojbyrne 12y ago
You say yourself it is an undertone, and certainly there is a very bipolar nature to American culture. That doesn't mean it can't change for the better. Gay sex has gone from something that once was the most heinous possible thing imaginable to something that's being accepted in even the most conservative of states. Marijuana is now legal in 4 states (and a district) and only a minor infraction in several others. Both these things wouldn't have been imaginable 20 years ago. The one thing the country is, is dynamic. It changes a lot quicker than many other countries.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  > The one thing the country is, is dynamic. It changes a lot quicker than many other countries. As the population "ages out" (older people with different societal mores die out, are replaced with younger folks), these changes occur. If you check out the exit polls for Florida for their recent medicinal marijuana ballot initiative, the 65+ age cohort was 62% against/38% for it. Compare that to the 18-29 age cohort (79% for/21% against). http://cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/FL http://cnn.com/election/2014/results/state/FL I leave it to the reader to calculate the "run rate" at which time ballot measures such as these pass based on actuarial data in various states.
adventured 12y ago
I'm completely sure of it. In general it's changing drastically in the US in fact. National polls indicate the majority are now in favor of pot legalization. States keep moving step by step toward treating drug addiction as a medical problem instead of a criminal problem. There is extremely wide-spread recognition that we have far too many people in prison, and that the police are far too violent / aggressive; both problems are finally seeing push-back and improvement. The US has a long history of making sweeping cultural changes, sometimes extremely rapidly, other times extremely slowly. There is immense and continual precedence in the US for the culture moving in the right direction, from women's suffrage, to civil rights, to gay marriage. America has a problem with alcohol? Where? I think you have it exactly backwards, there is relatively little puritanical anything left in America's culture. 1) The US is the world's largest consumer of alcohol. 2) The US is the world's biggest pornography market. The US is freer when it comes to that, than many European nations that are supposed to be non-puritanical. 3) I have no idea why you referenced video games, there are no actual problems with video games in the US despite whatever sensational blip you might have seen. 4) Most media in the US is perfectly fine with sexuality, you're referring to an extraordinarily small part of it, the broadcast networks.