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I have a Linux laptop on which I run a tiling window manager (in my case, Xmonad), and nothing else. No system tray, no quick launch bar, nothing. (if you're n

by GuiA 12y ago

I have a Linux laptop on which I run a tiling window manager (in my case, Xmonad), and nothing else. No system tray, no quick launch bar, nothing. (if you're not familiar with tiling window managers, they're window managers in which windows are arranged automatically to a) fully occupy the screen and b) never overlap. They're extremely customizable, but typically you'll have a vertical half of your screen with a main app, and the other half with all the other apps "stacked", with keyboard shortcuts to toggle between them and adjust various parameters (e.g. split orientation). You typically also get virtual desktops. The whole thing is fully keyboard driven (on my Xmonad, cmd + shift + enter opens a new terminal, and cmd + shift + c kills the currently selected window), and once you get used to it it's a usability dream). On it, I have 2 graphical applications installed: a terminal emulator, because that's where I do all my work (and can launch other minor applications, such as a PDF viewer, if needed), and surf, a tab-less/control-less/URL field-less browser that you launch by typing `surf <url>`. People make fun of me for this weird archaic setup, but it's the most productive machine I've ever used. Tiling window managers don't get in the way, and make it painful obvious when you have non work stuff open. surf forces me to not fuck around with 15000 irrelevant tabs open. It sounds like it would be a terribly crippled experience, but in practice it does not impede my workflow at all - it keeps me focused. It's gotten to the point that when I hear colleagues who complain about all their open tabs and how screwed they would be if their Chrome crashes, I feel like they come from another planet. I don't like the whole "have some discipline" argument. Humans are notoriously bad at discipline- environment plays as much of a role as self control (try surrounding the most hardcore fitness nut by candy 24/7 and see how long they last). The point of our tools is that they should enable us to be who we want to be.

esMazer 12y ago
ohh so this is what I've seen on my coworker computer :)
the_gipsy 12y ago
Came here to say this. Normal window managers are great for normal computers where you don't know whether it's going to be used to do graphic design, spreadsheets or whatever. But for IT people and especially programmers it is insane not to specialize your machine, to spend half of your mouse gestures on moving windows around, maximizing, minimizing, finding them in the clutter you are producing.
igammarays 12y ago
Anyone have any suggestions for how to get a similar setup on OSX?
- dman 12y ago
  Run Linux/*BSD in parallels/vmware.
- jh3 12y ago
  Run everything in X11. I wish I knew of another way to run a decent tiling manager.
- lgas 12y ago
  I was a long time xmonad user on Linux but I spend all of my time in OS X these days. I haven't found anything that rivals the power a full fledged tiling window manager but use Divvy to bind hot keys to actions "fill the screen" or "fill the left half of the screen" or "fill the bottom right quadrant of the screen" etc and I'm able to create a workflow that's a reasonable compromise.
- ashark 12y ago
  The built-in multiple desktop support (ctrl+arrow left/right to switch) plus Spectacle[1] (free, open-source) will get you most of the way there. There's no good way to get rid of window title bars that I'm aware of, though having them there does mean you can switch seamlessly between normal OSX window management and sort-of tiling management via Spectacle. Spectacle's default keybindings conflict with (override) Chrome's primary next-tab/previous-tab keys, but there's an alternate command+shift+[ or ] binding for those actions in Chrome. [1] http://spectacleapp.com/ http://spectacleapp.com/
  - jansenvt 12y ago
    "SizeUp" is very similar. https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/store/index.php?app=SizeUp https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/store/index.php?app=SizeU...
- tammer 12y ago
  The other comments recommend better options to simulate xmonad/other tiling wm's (FYI there is a version[1] of xmonad in development that works with native OS X windows) but for distraction-free work I really enjoy OS X's fullscreen mode. Often to avoid distractions I'll fullscreen everything and use gestures to go back and forth - gives you an identical experience to an iPad (unlike the statement in the article). Using the gesture to hold two fullscreen windows visibly at once but not relying on tiling or overlapping is surprisingly useful and productive. [1]: https://github.com/xmonad/osxmonad https://github.com/xmonad/osxmonad
andrewflnr 12y ago
Like many, I tend to use tabs as short term bookmarks or a reading queue. Do you do anything in particular for those use cases? Just URLs in a text file, maybe?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- shock 12y ago
  I use the Save-to-Read[0] Firefox addon. [0] - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/save-to-read/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/save-to-read/
Dewie 12y ago
It sounds like we have similar setups. I use xmonad with no system trays - if I need something that happens to be a system tray, I'll ask for it and close it when I'm done with it. When I'm working in an application I don't need to see what the time is, if I've got a new email... > I don't like the whole "have some discipline" argument. Humans are notoriously bad at discipline- environment plays as much of a role as self control (try surrounding the most hardcore fitness nut by candy 24/7 and see how long they last). The point of our tools is that they should enable us to be who we want to be. Yes! I've come to the same conclusion myself. One thing that many people who complain about people's lack of self discipline nowadays is that it is most probably objectively harder to stay disciplined in the modern age then it was before. For a long time this was true for things like junk food, but most recently it's true for computers and the procrastination that they encourage. It probably isn't we who have gotten less disciplined - it is our environment that demands more discipline of us. And since computers are too-damn-convenient to be without, we need to make them help us stay on track rather than allowing them to drain our self-discipline energy (if there is such a thing. It feels like it is.)
clusterfoo 12y ago
Same, I've had co-workers laugh at my crazy key bindings, but by comparison, whenever I have to code on my Mac (which I've not customized, or someone else's computer, I wonder how I ever managed to get anything done without a highly customized environment. I use i3 (tiling manager - I find it the easiest to config) and vim, and similar key bindings across both. I get how it can seem like a lot of trouble for some people, but it's so worth it when you can edit code and move around your environment at basically the speed of thought. Some would argue that typing / windows-switching speed is not the bottleneck in development, but for me it's not about performance (I'm a rather bad typist), but about reducing mental overhead and minimizing "mental disrupts". One-second distractions of reaching for my mouse, then moving the pointer to the task bar, etc... just add up to a lot of overhead (try reading a dense article while taking one-second breaks to look away from the page after every sentence. Comprehension plummets).
a3n 12y ago
I confess tiling envy. I try them out every year or two, but I generally abandon them because I can't get comfort functions to work, especially managing power, sleeping, hibernation and the lid, and key management. These things generally/often come with the more mainstream window managers, so I've never had to figure them out (and don't seem to be able to with twms). I remember looking for solutions to power for awesome (which is otherwise awesome) and finding chains of solutions depending on debian releases, including gaps. I'll try again come spring, I'm sure.
- a3n 12y ago
  Dammit. Now I can feel the growing excitement of trying a twm again. And it's not even 2015 yet.
- gizmo686 12y ago
  You can try using a tiling window manager with in a more traditional desktop environment. I think Awesome has a wiki article on running Gnome with Awesome as the WM.
  - a3n 12y ago
    Thanks, tried that. As I recall it did help with things like power, but I had issues, since forgotten. As it happens, I am right now using i3 4.7.2, installed last night from linuxmint's repositories. I'm trying to use just i3, along with whatever i3's package recommended. So far so good. But it didn't sleep last night, the screen just blanked. At least it's Saturday. :)
- dllthomas 12y ago
  I've been using a tiling window manager for some while now, and this was definitely a pain point for some while. Subjectively, it has recently got better, though I don't know whether it will be better enough for your needs. FWIW, I use ratpoison on Ubuntu on my laptop, and used ratpoison on Debian on my work desktop at my last position.
dllthomas 12y ago
Enjoying Haskell, I've been tempted to switch to XMonad. I tried once, spent about an hour trying to configure it how I thought I'd want it, realized I was recreating my experience on ratpoison, and shelved it until I found something I wanted that was a pain to create in ratpoison. I expect that will happen eventually, but it hasn't yet.

by GuiA 12y ago

esMazer 12y ago

ohh so this is what I've seen on my coworker computer :)

the_gipsy 12y ago

Came here to say this. Normal window managers are great for normal computers where you don't know whether it's going to be used to do graphic design, spreadsheets or whatever. But for IT people and especially programmers it is insane not to specialize your machine, to spend half of your mouse gestures on moving windows around, maximizing, minimizing, finding them in the clutter you are producing.

igammarays 12y ago

Anyone have any suggestions for how to get a similar setup on OSX?

dman 12y ago
Run Linux/*BSD in parallels/vmware.
jh3 12y ago
Run everything in X11. I wish I knew of another way to run a decent tiling manager.
lgas 12y ago
I was a long time xmonad user on Linux but I spend all of my time in OS X these days. I haven't found anything that rivals the power a full fledged tiling window manager but use Divvy to bind hot keys to actions "fill the screen" or "fill the left half of the screen" or "fill the bottom right quadrant of the screen" etc and I'm able to create a workflow that's a reasonable compromise.
ashark 12y ago
The built-in multiple desktop support (ctrl+arrow left/right to switch) plus Spectacle[1] (free, open-source) will get you most of the way there. There's no good way to get rid of window title bars that I'm aware of, though having them there does mean you can switch seamlessly between normal OSX window management and sort-of tiling management via Spectacle. Spectacle's default keybindings conflict with (override) Chrome's primary next-tab/previous-tab keys, but there's an alternate command+shift+[ or ] binding for those actions in Chrome. [1] http://spectacleapp.com/ http://spectacleapp.com/
- jansenvt 12y ago
  "SizeUp" is very similar. https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/store/index.php?app=SizeUp https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/store/index.php?app=SizeU...
tammer 12y ago
The other comments recommend better options to simulate xmonad/other tiling wm's (FYI there is a version[1] of xmonad in development that works with native OS X windows) but for distraction-free work I really enjoy OS X's fullscreen mode. Often to avoid distractions I'll fullscreen everything and use gestures to go back and forth - gives you an identical experience to an iPad (unlike the statement in the article). Using the gesture to hold two fullscreen windows visibly at once but not relying on tiling or overlapping is surprisingly useful and productive. [1]: https://github.com/xmonad/osxmonad https://github.com/xmonad/osxmonad

andrewflnr 12y ago

Like many, I tend to use tabs as short term bookmarks or a reading queue. Do you do anything in particular for those use cases? Just URLs in a text file, maybe?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
shock 12y ago
I use the Save-to-Read[0] Firefox addon. [0] - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/save-to-read/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/save-to-read/

Dewie 12y ago

It sounds like we have similar setups. I use xmonad with no system trays - if I need something that happens to be a system tray, I'll ask for it and close it when I'm done with it. When I'm working in an application I don't need to see what the time is, if I've got a new email... > I don't like the whole "have some discipline" argument. Humans are notoriously bad at discipline- environment plays as much of a role as self control (try surrounding the most hardcore fitness nut by candy 24/7 and see how long they last). The point of our tools is that they should enable us to be who we want to be. Yes! I've come to the same conclusion myself. One thing that many people who complain about people's lack of self discipline nowadays is that it is most probably objectively harder to stay disciplined in the modern age then it was before. For a long time this was true for things like junk food, but most recently it's true for computers and the procrastination that they encourage. It probably isn't we who have gotten less disciplined - it is our environment that demands more discipline of us. And since computers are too-damn-convenient to be without, we need to make them help us stay on track rather than allowing them to drain our self-discipline energy (if there is such a thing. It feels like it is.)

clusterfoo 12y ago

Same, I've had co-workers laugh at my crazy key bindings, but by comparison, whenever I have to code on my Mac (which I've not customized, or someone else's computer, I wonder how I ever managed to get anything done without a highly customized environment. I use i3 (tiling manager - I find it the easiest to config) and vim, and similar key bindings across both. I get how it can seem like a lot of trouble for some people, but it's so worth it when you can edit code and move around your environment at basically the speed of thought. Some would argue that typing / windows-switching speed is not the bottleneck in development, but for me it's not about performance (I'm a rather bad typist), but about reducing mental overhead and minimizing "mental disrupts". One-second distractions of reaching for my mouse, then moving the pointer to the task bar, etc... just add up to a lot of overhead (try reading a dense article while taking one-second breaks to look away from the page after every sentence. Comprehension plummets).

a3n 12y ago

I confess tiling envy. I try them out every year or two, but I generally abandon them because I can't get comfort functions to work, especially managing power, sleeping, hibernation and the lid, and key management. These things generally/often come with the more mainstream window managers, so I've never had to figure them out (and don't seem to be able to with twms). I remember looking for solutions to power for awesome (which is otherwise awesome) and finding chains of solutions depending on debian releases, including gaps. I'll try again come spring, I'm sure.

a3n 12y ago
Dammit. Now I can feel the growing excitement of trying a twm again. And it's not even 2015 yet.
gizmo686 12y ago
You can try using a tiling window manager with in a more traditional desktop environment. I think Awesome has a wiki article on running Gnome with Awesome as the WM.
- a3n 12y ago
  Thanks, tried that. As I recall it did help with things like power, but I had issues, since forgotten. As it happens, I am right now using i3 4.7.2, installed last night from linuxmint's repositories. I'm trying to use just i3, along with whatever i3's package recommended. So far so good. But it didn't sleep last night, the screen just blanked. At least it's Saturday. :)
dllthomas 12y ago
I've been using a tiling window manager for some while now, and this was definitely a pain point for some while. Subjectively, it has recently got better, though I don't know whether it will be better enough for your needs. FWIW, I use ratpoison on Ubuntu on my laptop, and used ratpoison on Debian on my work desktop at my last position.

dllthomas 12y ago

Enjoying Haskell, I've been tempted to switch to XMonad. I tried once, spent about an hour trying to configure it how I thought I'd want it, realized I was recreating my experience on ratpoison, and shelved it until I found something I wanted that was a pain to create in ratpoison. I expect that will happen eventually, but it hasn't yet.